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Header Bolts are Exciting Stuff

Moparfiend

Moparfiend

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for us gear heads anyway. Ok question for you guys. I have both black Oxide AND polished Stainless header bolts. Whats better to use and why? Keep in mind 4 bolts are exposed to the coolant. Lastly antiseize or no on header bolts?

Thanks for stopping by........

MF (Mopar Feind) not the other one come on....
 
The answer depends on what type of heads you have. Edelbrocks and other aluminum heads have blind holes so NO coolant passes near or through them. For those you'd want anti-sieze to avoid getting the threads ripped out when you back out the bolts...someday.
For factory iron, either bolt works but the four outer holes are into the coolant passages so they would need some type of sealant. Permatex, liquid teflon...something.
I do agree with the man above me...Studs are the best option if you can get the headers in there to use them. They really help position the headers while threading the nuts. I've often used a headless bolt as a dowel when installing headers. I've also used 9/16" head 3/8" bolts where I can fit them as opposed to using the 7/16" head bolts included with most header kits.
 
Kern Dog said:
The answer depends on what type of heads you have. Edelbrocks and other aluminum heads have blind holes so NO coolant passes near or through them. For those you'd want anti-sieze to avoid getting the threads ripped out when you back out the bolts...someday.
For factory iron, either bolt works but the four outer holes are into the coolant passages so they would need some type of sealant. Permatex, liquid teflon...something.
I do agree with the man above me...Studs are the best option if you can get the headers in there to use them. They really help position the headers while threading the nuts. I've often used a headless bolt as a dowel when installing headers. I've also used 9/16" head 3/8" bolts where I can fit them as opposed to using the 7/16" head bolts included with most header kits.
Click to expand...
I am running cast factory heads with studs on both ends that are wet. The problem with the studs is that I have a tight fit on two bolts (the headers for those tight fit are fortunately sloted). So I need to be able to slide the headers in place after I started the two inner problem children (7 and I think 5). I supose I could put the studs in after I start 7 and 5 but at that point I might as well just use bolts and be done with it. What do you think based on any header installs you may have done? I realize that without the studs any future work involing the removal of the headers would require draining the fluid thats ok by me as 5 and 7 are real buggers with these pipes.

Also still wondering about stainless vs oxide bolts.

I hear ya with respect to needing thread seal on either bolts or studs on the outer mounts since they are open to the heads water jacket.
 
I've always liked having studs in the first and last ones on both sides - for hanging the headers loosely, like others have said.
Once the header has been hooked onto the front stud, get the nut started enough to keep it from flopping back off, then go about starting all the bolts in between. RTV blue goop on all of 'em, just to keep me honest (and they come back out pretty easily that way later, too).
 
I've had problems with stainless gallding the threads. ARP is great for this.Always use some type of lube,anti seize.
Like Kern Dog said,When you can, use the larger head bolts unless clearance is a issue.Just did this yesterday on a small block.End holes studs,reusing the factory cup washers. Center 5/16 grade 8 bolts and on the end exhaust ports (inner holes)the small head header bolts if needed. I was installing budget Jegs headers on a B Body and had to use those.Also the Jegs cheepie headers,the header bolts that came with them were too short for my liking.
 
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I'm going to take darter6's advice on the metal type. Bolts are definitely easier when installing headers vs. studs (as you know). Studs avoid problems like I'm dealing with myself right now (a leaking end header bolt), but as you noted, clearance while installing headers can be an issue with studs. The plus side of studs (as others noted) is that if you have enough clearance, you can "hang" the headers on the studs to line up the other bolts/studs during installation.

There is no problem running a combination of studs/bolts. There is about a 1/4" extra length on the factory studs (when using headers) & I have cut off that extra 1/4" on mine. I locked two nuts against each other & just used a hacksaw. One nut gets chewed up, but no big deal. When taking the nuts off, it cleans up the end couple threads.

Bottom line.....look and see what would work best in YOUR situation with YOUR headers, ya' know what I mean?
 
Put stainless bolts on exhaust manifolds, never again. It was a major PITA to remove them.
 
Fran. I used ARP Stainless engine bracket bolts from their Big Block engine fastener kit. Well,I screwed up and installed the isolators upside down and had to remove the brackets(you know, look at the instructions AFTER you screw up ) Yep,galled up threads.Thank goodness for a air hacksaw !
 
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Thanks for your inputs guys! Ok my take on what is beiing said here is the following.

Stainless steel header bolts gaul and seize easily and not recommend here. OK

Studs on the ends help with installation and if can be used should be used based on the fact that studs also preven the need to drain ccoolant for header removal.

ARP makes a good product and is recommended here by most of you guys. What material and finish is used by the ARP bolts you guys are recommending here? Black oxide any good?

Lastly use what ever is needed as all applications with respect to header installation are different. Especially clearances......
 
I use ARP stainless on my -1 Indy aluminum heads and on my stock iron heads. Nothing on the dry bolts. White Teflon paste on those that go into water. Just pulled the headers on the iron headed motor to recoat them. Came right off after 15 years. Never even had to tighten one. The race car with aluminum heads has been apart for maintenance 4 times in 7 years. No issues ever. My motors all have stanless bolts in the timing cover, valve cover, intake, etc. Plus they look great and don't rust.
Doug
 
Thanks guys. I guess this is why we have choices in materials and solutions. I am in the process of pulling the studs. I got the first one loose but it wasn’t easy. I hit it with penetrant ffor a fee days and tapped it with a hammer a few times. I ended up needing to heat the ****** up to break it loose.
 
Moparfeind said:
Thanks guys. I guess this is why we have choices in materials and solutions. I am in the process of pulling the studs. I got the first one loose but it wasn’t easy. I hit it with penetrant ffor a fee days and tapped it with a hammer a few times. I ended up needing to heat the ****** up to break it loose.
Click to expand...
Yeah...they can be REAL stubborn to come out in old iron heads AND expensive to repair if you break one (which I've done). That might be another factor...only replace the studs with bolts where you have to & maybe trim off 1/4" of your studs only where needed? Bolts only where needed?
 
PurpleBeeper said:
Yeah...they can be REAL stubborn to come out in old iron heads AND expensive to repair if you break one (which I've done). That might be another factor...only replace the studs with bolts where you have to & maybe trim off 1/4" of your studs only where needed? Bolts only where needed?
Click to expand...
Just got both out! Thanks PB your always a big help here! I really appreciate all the help everyone throws ny way here!
 
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Back in the day the nuts would round off or strip the threads. We would use connecting rod nuts.
 
Thought I’d share my results and decisions as it’s always nice to see how some one fared after you try and help a fellow member out. I decided to use stainless steel hex bolts. I am countering the gauling issue was to use a copper graphite anti-seize. Also using the Nord-Lock washers. Latly I used the Percy’s multilayer aluminum gaskets.
Cylinder 5 was an utter PITA. I was not able to get a torque wrench on a few bolts as the header design interference.

971FD058-B847-4BA8-9128-CFC37EF752CB.jpeg 1F4B2F15-A9DA-4A2C-AE88-2041D34D99E8.jpeg 67EFF1B8-E37E-4368-B000-77CF540ED0BD.jpeg 4E6D0685-48C8-4DE2-85E2-FE2C3AA6E256.jpeg
 
Oh and I replaced the two end studs with the stainless hex bolts and used teflon or PTFE tape to keep from leaking coolant. Hopefully this set up will be stable for a long time.....
 
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