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Help with a "B" stroker build

hunt2elk

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Starting to think about a motor for my current 1969 Super Bee project and would love some input from you engine guys. I have a 400 standard bore block so will go with either a 451 or 470 kit from 440 Source. Will be a 4-speed, 3.55 gears, and 27-28 inch rear tires. I would love to use an Edelbrock RPM intake like I have on my current 451, but there is no way it will fit with the Ramcharger hood. So if I buy a 440 air cleaner base, I could use a regular Performer, Weiand Action +, or if I can find one a Edelbrock DP4B.
So my questions are:
1)Which intake to use?
2)With the shorter intake does it pay to upgrade to a set of Trick Flow 240's, or is the intake going to be a restriction and I should just use a set of Stealth heads?
3) Cam recommendation. Would like a hydraulic flat tappet, but would live with a solid if I had to.
Spirited street car. I would like the power to be low in the rpm range and about like my current 451 which has 545 HP and 545 Ft. Lbs. This is with the RPM intake Racer Brown hydraulic cam, and Source heads.
 
What are you plans for the current motor if you like how it runs why not use the cam and heads from that..

BTW I'm going to build a 470 now most would say go big but for me I realized I'm going to mainly drive on the street
 
My 451 now is ok, but I'm not really that happy with the Racer Brown cam and would like to try something different. Plus I would like to know of a cam that would work well with the shorter more restrictive intake I have to use on the Bee.
 
I'm also very happy with my 451 but if I do it all over I would do the 470, that's just my opinion. I have TF240 on mine with a RPM intake and a flat tappet cam that produces between 12-13 inches vacuum to retain power brakes. I did try the performer intake and it was equal to the rpm up to 3800rpm and after that the rpm just killed it by 35hp. I will include my Dyno sheet for you to look at and I too emphasized drive ability on the street. I wanted the most in the midrange where I do most of my driving. Overall I'm happy with the combo, Car which is very heavy
Capture.JPG
runs mid 11's and can drive anywhere
 
I went with the 400 block and the 512 kit from 440source. It’s a street driving 69 charger. Goes great and very streetable no issues. Drives around nice and easy and then goes when you hit the button. I did keep compression ratio down to 9:7 but but lots of quench or squish if you will. Same price for the kit too. I was concerned about going that big at first but now no worries at all.

I just thought I’d throw the info in on the 512 in case you were thinking...

Good luck.
 
I went with the 400 block and the 512 kit from 440source. It’s a street driving 69 charger. Goes great and very streetable no issues. Drives around nice and easy and then goes when you hit the button. I did keep compression ratio down to 9:7 but but lots of quench or squish if you will. Same price for the kit too. I was concerned about going that big at first but now no worries at all.

I just thought I’d throw the info in on the 512 in case you were thinking...

Good luck.
What cam and intake did you use?
 
I'm also very happy with my 451 but if I do it all over I would do the 470, that's just my opinion. I have TF240 on mine with a RPM intake and a flat tappet cam that produces between 12-13 inches vacuum to retain power brakes. I did try the performer intake and it was equal to the rpm up to 3800rpm and after that the rpm just killed it by 35hp. I will include my Dyno sheet for you to look at and I too emphasized drive ability on the street. I wanted the most in the midrange where I do most of my driving. Overall I'm happy with the combo, Car which is very heavy View attachment 722654 runs mid 11's and can drive anywhere
Dang, those are some good numbers. What cam and compression ratio do you have?
 
If you are starting from scratch then go ahead and use a 4.25 stroke crank. No reason not too for a street engine. I'd use the TF240 heads if your exhaust system is happy with angle plugs. It will depend on which headers or manifolds that you use. You'll be killing the peak power with one of those intakes but your low end torque will be fine which is what moves the car around town anyway. Keep the cam and the carb on the small side for a street engine and you'll be happy. I'd highly recommend switching to EFI complete with ignition control. The Holley Sniper setup is fairly inexpensive and gives you a lot of tuning control. Add a new gas tank with a built in fuel pump and you'll be set.
 
Dang, those are some good numbers. What cam and compression ratio do you have?
the compression is 10.75 with .045 quench which is not too bad, the cam is custom cam 236-242 but 112 LSA to have a smoother idle. I worked with both my engine builder Tom @ TK Race 514-920-0094 and Tim @ Hughes and I feel they both hit it spot on. Both these guys treated me very well and I'm pleased. My suggestion is build your engine to conform to what you want, what's going to make you happy and driving style you want to achieve. With all the knowledgeable people here you will surely get great input.
 
If you are starting from scratch then go ahead and use a 4.25 stroke crank. No reason not too for a street engine. I'd use the TF240 heads if your exhaust system is happy with angle plugs. It will depend on which headers or manifolds that you use. You'll be killing the peak power with one of those intakes but your low end torque will be fine which is what moves the car around town anyway. Keep the cam and the carb on the small side for a street engine and you'll be happy. I'd highly recommend switching to EFI complete with ignition control. The Holley Sniper setup is fairly inexpensive and gives you a lot of tuning control. Add a new gas tank with a built in fuel pump and you'll be set.
In your opinion, is there a best of the shorter intakes? How small of a cam would you recommend?
 
I'm also very happy with my 451 but if I do it all over I would do the 470, that's just my opinion. I have TF240 on mine with a RPM intake and a flat tappet cam that produces between 12-13 inches vacuum to retain power brakes. I did try the performer intake and it was equal to the rpm up to 3800rpm and after that the rpm just killed it by 35hp. I will include my Dyno sheet for you to look at and I too emphasized drive ability on the street. I wanted the most in the midrange where I do most of my driving. Overall I'm happy with the combo, Car which is very heavy View attachment 722654 runs mid 11's and can drive anywhere
Do have the Dyno Sheets with the Performer Intake installed ?
Or the numbers at 5400-5500 Rpms from the Performer versus Rpm

Just curious on the Torque numbers comparison between both intakes up to 5500 Rpms
 
Do have the Dyno Sheets with the Performer Intake installed ?
Or the numbers at 5400-5500 Rpms from the Performer versus Rpm

Just curious on the Torque numbers comparison between both intakes up to 5500 Rpms
Sorry I looked everywhere and can't find them. I will ask the Dyno guy to see if he has records
 
If you don't want to leave a bunch of power on the table, I think you can make the SD intake work with air cleaner base creativity, and K-member spacers.

Bigger cubic inches = greater low rpm power. That said, if you are going to restrict power with the intake, you don't need the extra cubic inches to achieve the limited power caused by the intake.

Of the intakes on your list, I'd probably pick the DP4B. Milling out the divider will get you more power.

Again, if the intake is your power bottleneck, there is limited benefit in putting on a better cylinder head.

So you can build a 512 motor with TF heads and hamstring it to 500 HP due to the intake, or you could build a 451 with less costly heads and make the 500 HP. Of course, the good news is if you build the 512/TF motor, you're an intake swap, and maybe a cam swap away from 575 HP.
 
If you don't want to leave a bunch of power on the table, I think you can make the SD intake work with air cleaner base creativity, and K-member spacers.

Bigger cubic inches = greater low rpm power. That said, if you are going to restrict power with the intake, you don't need the extra cubic inches to achieve the limited power caused by the intake.

Of the intakes on your list, I'd probably pick the DP4B. Milling out the divider will get you more power.

Again, if the intake is your power bottleneck, there is limited benefit in putting on a better cylinder head.

So you can build a 512 motor with TF heads and hamstring it to 500 HP due to the intake, or you could build a 451 with less costly heads and make the 500 HP. Of course, the good news is if you build the 512/TF motor, you're an intake swap, and maybe a cam swap away from 575 HP.

This is exactly my concern/question. Does it really make sense to go bigger than a 451 - 470 stroker kit and spend twice as much for Trick Flow heads if my intake choice is restricting everything anyways. I actually do have a Holley Street Dominator for this block, but from my measurements it is 15/16" taller than stock. I don't want to shim the K-frame, so I have pretty much eliminated that one from the mix.
 
Are you sure the RPM won't fit? Especially with a low deck. We had one on a 65 Plymouth with a RB with no issue.
Doug
 
The current Performer 383 intake is just a revised DP4B. No need to pay a premium for an old DP4B when there are plenty of used Performer 383's around.

Perf383.jpg
CH4B.jpg
 
Are you sure the RPM won't fit? Especially with a low deck. We had one on a 65 Plymouth with a RB with no issue.
Doug
Definitely won't fit with the factory Ramcharger hood ductwork.
 
The current Performer 383 intake is just a revised DP4B. No need to pay a premium for an old DP4B when there are plenty of used Performer 383's around.

View attachment 722890 View attachment 722891
I have run across quite a few people and articles saying that the new Performers don't work nearly as well as the old DP4B. Or course that is all interweb talk, and we all know that everything posted online is true LOL.
 
I have run across quite a few people and articles saying that the new Performers don't work nearly as well as the old DP4B. Or course that is all interweb talk, and we all know that everything posted online is true LOL.

I have both and used both. If you spend a day measuring everything about those two manifolds, you will convince yourself that they are actually identical intakes. The Performer is a DP4B flipped end for end, and a spreadbore flange added. Maybe there is a little in one over the other, but you'll be had pressed to find it, or know it, if it's there.
 
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