Muscle cars?

Cojohnso1 · Mar 8, 2019

I have argued that the muscle car era and make was only from '64-'71. And only includes mid size. From a "Purist" point of view. I believe the first true Muscle car was the 64 GTO. Pontiac purposely built and labled "The working man's sports car." And that started I believe the greatest competition, styling and performance era in US automotive history. The list of cars of that era that is considered "Muscle car" is actually small. All others are either Pony, sports car, family, luxury or race specialty.

My Muscle car list. (Alphabetical order)

Buick: Grand Sport
Chevrolet: Chevelle SS
Dodge: Charger/Superbee
Ford: Torino GT
Oldsmoble: 442
Plymouth: Roadrunner/GTX
Pontiac: GTO

I understand this short list and tight 8 year window is very argumentative. Like the "E bodies." Chrysler took a pony car and made wider to a midsized. But too late. The Challenger and Cuda are pony cars. So are all "A" bodies. Which includes. AMX, Nova, Duster/Demon, Camaro, Mustang. Cars like Thunderbolt, Superbird are specialty. Vettes of course are sports cars.

This of course is just my opinion. But if a younger person say's "I want a classic Muscle car?" I say "You only have the list to choose."

Let the disagreement begin?

Tempest 455 · Mar 8, 2019

Some exceptions:

'72 Track Pack 440 Rallye Charger with Dana and HEMI 4spd still.

'72 340 Cuda, Challengers.

'72 455-HO Trans Am's flew and '73-'74 SD-455's even faster.

'72 Buick GS Stage 1 had one more year.

Not the high compression of former years but the above cars were fast for the time.

Cojohnso1 · Mar 8, 2019

72s do have a valid argument. But the writing was already on the wall. Pontiac, Chevy, Ford and Chrysler dumped plans for some amazing machines. Like 500+ horse 455 Judge, Chrysler had both a ball stud hemi and a 4 valve hemi design coming. So did Ford. But all that ended at the end of 71.

moparnation74 · Mar 8, 2019

My ride are in the list.....so no argument from me

Jerry Hall · Mar 8, 2019

I think from my Chrysler mindset that the true Muscle Cars are from 62-72. Also Chrysler set the tone for Muscle Cars in the late 50's with the final Gen I Hemi's. They were great, powerful engines with lots of potential for the lighter cars to come. Don Garlits told me personally that he used the Chrysler 330, 331, 354 Hemi's in the early days with no modifications other than a cam and a blower. He said they were competitive and he ran them till they blew. Hot Rods or Muscle Cars have been on car guy's & gals since the end of WWII. I have been a car guy since Jr. High School or the 7th grade in 1953. In my opinion I have one of the first with my 62 Dart 413 Max Wedge, and one of the last with the 72 RR GTX. There are many in between but mostly 67 and 68 A & B body's.

HT413 · Mar 8, 2019

I'd add:

427 Biscayne
Belvedere (pre-68 when they gutted the engine options for the Road Runner)
Coronet
Tempest
Fairlane
Galaxy
Any high performance Cutlass, not just the 442.

And I guess you’re not a Mercury fan.

polywideblock · Mar 8, 2019

don't forget about AMC -AMX and the javelin and the SC/rambler 1968 to 1973

1970_AMC_The_Machine_2-door_muscle_car_in_RWB_trim_by_lake.jpg

Cojohnso1 · Mar 8, 2019

Lol. No No No. I would love to think the first Gen I Hemi or Max Wedge cars. But they were just evolution of the same cars of lower performance. Muscle cars were purposely built. Mercs? Luxury. AMX/Javlin? Pony cars

Cojohnso1 · Mar 8, 2019

427 Biscayne definitely specialty for Nascar. Cornet, Tempest, Galaxy are the base models. The Fairlane a better argument. But yield to the Torino. JMO of course.

HT413 · Mar 8, 2019

Cojohnso1 said:
Lol. No No No. I would love to think the first Gen I Hemi or Max Wedge cars. But they were just evolution of the same cars of lower performance. Muscle cars were purposely built. Mercs? Luxury.

Max Wedge cars fit the same bill as the rest of the cars on your list - low optioned, high power. Sure the A12 was stripped of carpet and lightened, but every other muscle car was just a mid size with more power.

If a high option car like a GTX fits the list, so does a Mercury Cyclone 390/320hp or the 428/335hp.

Ranger16 · Mar 8, 2019

While this is a HIGHLY arguable topic, I'd say you are fairly close, and I say that because after '71 or '72, they started to detune them and began taking the muscle out of "muscle cars" (as well as all others).

Case in point, the Cadillac 500 CID.
1970 - 400 hp (298 kW) @ 4400 rpm
1971 - 365 hp (272 kW) @ 4400 rpm
1972 - 235 hp (175 kW) @ 4400 rpm
1973 - same as above
1974 - 205 hp (153 kW) @ 4400 rpm
1975 - 210 hp (157 kW) @ 3600 rpm
1976 - A paltry 190 hp (142 kW) @ 3600 rpm

Cojohnso1 · Mar 8, 2019

moparnation74 said:
My ride are in the list.....so no argument from me

I have a 69 GTX, a 70 Cuda and a 74 Duster. The Cuda and Duster are drag cars. So yes, an A-body, B-Body and E-Body. But only the GTX is a Muscle car. (In my "Purist") opinion.

Cojohnso1 · Mar 8, 2019

The Merc Cyclone may need to be added. I know it was a Nascar built darling. so it's the best next candidate?

Cojohnso1 · Mar 8, 2019

Cadillac definitely a luxury

Cojohnso1 · Mar 8, 2019

Cojohnso1 said:
The Merc Cyclone may need to be added. I know it was a Nascar built darling. so it's the best next candidate? But wasn't that a full size car? Like the Marauder?

747mopar · Mar 8, 2019

My perspective is different since I never tie myself to the OEM package although 73 introduced the crash standard bumpers forever killing the front and rear appeal. Myself I love everything from the 50's to 72.

Cojohnso1 · Mar 8, 2019

And yes. VERY ARGUMENTATIVE.

HT413 · Mar 8, 2019

Cojohnso1 said:
427 Biscayne definitely specialty for Nascar. Cornet, Tempest, Galaxy are the base models. The Fairlane a better argument. But yield to the Torino. JMO of course.

I just think your concept of muscle car isn’t in line with what was happening in the 60’s.

Tempest could be ordered with the top GTO motor. Galaxie stuffed with a 390 or 428 was muscle. Biscayne was muscle. All the midsize Mercs fit the same bill as the the GTX - high optioned muscle car for the business man.

And the idea that a 68 HEMI Coronet R/T isn’t a muscle car is puzzling.

Cojohnso1 · Mar 8, 2019

HT413 said:
And the idea that a 68 HEMI Coronet R/T isn’t a muscle car is puzzling.

Because they never would have done that if it wasn't for the Charger suscess. Cornet was the base model. It's like calling the Belvedere a Muscle car? Because it was base to the Satellite which is base for Roadrunner/GTX (Roadrunner is just a stripped down GTX.) Which I know sold better.

Cojohnso1 · Mar 8, 2019

Again. My thread. My rules. Lol!!!!! There are cars that are adored that could very well be included.

Muscle cars?

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