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383 STOCK B body vs 5.7 Challenger

horace

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Just wondering how bad my STOCK 383 Bee i bought new with 3.23 gears would get beat by my 5.7 Hemi 3.06 gears 12 Challenger? Both totally stock !!! Thanks
 
It’s all about the engineering. Hi tech vs 1950’s tech. Multi port fuel injection, computer adjusted optimum air fuel ratio for rpm, load, and weather, roller can, variable valve timing, transmission gear ratios, etc, etc.

1950’s tech I’m saying a points distributor, mechanical voltage regulator, no antilock brakes, no extensive use of aluminum in the mechanicals of the car, zero computer controlled anything on the car, no LED lights, etc.

It isn’t right but it is so. I’ll take a real muscle car anytime! Nothing run by a computer, no plastic bumpers, you get the idea!
 
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I'm guessing by a full second. It's tough for 3 speed auto or 4 speed manual to complete with 6 speed trans and small block. My near stock 440 GTX lost to SRT. And it was the gearing more than any horse power difference. I know this because SRT struggled at above highway speed punch where both were at 1:1. Torque curve very different. Hellcat with factory supercharger is a whole different animal than standard SRT. As my GTX would be if I added a huffer.

You want to REALLY wake-up that 383? Add 440 crank to stroke up to 431 build? (Will obviously need lower profile pistons.) Head work to get her breathing? Carb intake mod? I have a Duster with 400 B-block with 440 crank to the 451 build. Big Single carb B1 heads. 10 second car (4:56 rear gear) Ran into 2 Hellcats at test and tune. When light went amber? Never saw them again. The big Z06 Corvette? I think he is still spinning. Never saw him either. I think any power adder is cheating. But they did come from the factory. That's the beauty of the muscle motors. More room and cubes to mess with.
 
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My wife's 2005 5.7 Hemi Durango goes like mad. 4000+ RPM wholly cow. A good big block is still wonderful.
 
The new stuff is rated at NET number. 376 HP for a 5.7 versus 335 GROSS for a 383 4 barrel.
NEW Challengers do weigh more, expect 4200 lbs for a loaded 5.7l model. We own a 2015, it is heavy.
The old B bodies weighed between 3400 to 3800 lbs with LA and B series engines, the HEMI added more of course.
You have light weight on your side, they have gearing and horsepower.
My 70 Charger with a 493 is faster than our Challenger 5.7 but I have a 3 speed, the Challenger is an 8 speed. I don't win by a whole lot!
 
I'm guessing by a full second. It's tough for 3 speed auto or 4 speed manual to complete with 6 speed trans and small block. My near stock 440 GTX lost to SRT. And it was the gearing more than any horse power difference. I know this because SRT struggled at above highway speed punch where both were at 1:1. Torque curve very different. Hellcat with factory supercharger is a whole different animal than standard SRT. As my GTX would be if I added a huffer.

You want to REALLY wake-up that 383? Add 440 crank to stroke up to 431 build? (Will obviously need lower profile pistons.) Head work to get her breathing? Carb intake mod? I have a Duster with 400 B-block with 440 crank to the 451 build. Big Single carb B1 heads. 10 second car (4:56 rear gear) Ran into 2 Hellcats at test and tune. When light went amber? Never saw them again. The big Z06 Corvette? I think he is still spinning. Never saw him either. I think any power adder is cheating. But they did come from the factory. That's the beauty of the muscle motors. More room and cubes to mess with.
Hell Yeah!!!
 
We played with my brother's '16 5.7, totally stock, at the strip awhile back. Proper launches with traction aids turned off we got mid-high 13s out of it. Not bad for what they are but there's a reason dodge started offering bigger and better engine packages with those beasts...
 
One more thing, with a carburetor it depends on the day and how it is tuned.
Mine were always better on a cool/damp day. Cold air = power.
Still true with EFI but the swing in power is not as large.
 
One more thing, with a carburetor it depends on the day and how it is tuned.
Mine were always better on a cool/damp day. Cold air = power.
Still true with EFI but the swing in power is not as large.
True, and the fact that it will vary the mixture to compensate automatically...
 
The new stuff is rated at NET number. 376 HP for a 5.7 versus 335 GROSS for a 383 4 barrel.
NEW Challengers do weigh more, expect 4200 lbs for a loaded 5.7l model. We own a 2015, it is heavy.
The old B bodies weighed between 3400 to 3800 lbs with LA and B series engines, the HEMI added more of course.
You have light weight on your side, they have gearing and horsepower.
My 70 Charger with a 493 is faster than our Challenger 5.7 but I have a 3 speed, the Challenger is an 8 speed. I don't win by a whole lot!
I agree the new cars are impressive. Getting that much power. I even like the tuner stuff. My dad didn't like my Muscle cars. And I vowed not to be prejudicial. (Tough looking at the Rice stuff.) But have to tip the hat.
 
We played with my brother's '16 5.7, totally stock, at the strip awhile back. Proper launches with traction aids turned off we got mid-high 13s out of it. Not bad for what they are but there's a reason dodge started offering bigger and better engine packages with those beasts...
My Cadillac XTS does a mid-13. (Ok, it's a twin turbo 6.) And it holds its own against the GTX. But the 440 will pull once that 6 cyl is done. (of course had to race them) The cad being 800 lbs heavier is what got it. And it's AWD lost some of its 400+ horse. GTX rated at 375 horse? It's more than that. My 3rd car is an '03 Mustang cobra 390 horse. It too lost to the GTX. all 3 are close. At diffraction speeds. But on top end? The old Plymouth will bury its 150 speedo. And the other two.

2014_cadillac_xts-pic-3242891845905546713-1024x768.jpeg
 
The 383 B body would run about a 14.6 to 14.8 at 94 to 96 mph. The R/T probably 13.6 - 13.8 at 101 to 103. So what does that really mean? In the quarter mile, the R/T will be about 150 ft (8 car lengths) ahead of the 383. Its not a little bit, and considering that the R/T probably weighs 600 lbs more, it puts into perspective the power difference between the two engines.
 
altitudes would have a lot to do with actual #'s

#'s at sea level IMO

I hate to say it, but:
I'd bet it'd (the 383 Bee) be beat by the modern stuff
by a full 2 seconds
if both were in properly tuned, for stock

especially if it was off the showroom floor,
bias ply tires 5 " wide & all on "stock" the Bee
Vs the wider better tires on the Challenger

15 second et's on the old, mid 7 sec. 0-60 was good
Vs
many are mid to high 13's on the newer, in stock as delivered
even with a crappy driver, mid 5 sec. 0-60 #'s or better

it's a totally different world today
crapbox 4 dr sedans with 300hp v6 or 4 bangers
that aren't even performance cars
can run high 13's or 14's
Electronics/computer control,
especially ignition times, fuel (these 2 in altitudes especially)
& traction, or lack of it in the old stuff, is a huge part of it

really good muscle cars
(mid size bb 2 dr American RWD cars, 64-71 :poke: yes some 62-63 too)
from the height of the muscle car era
most only ran 14's to 15's in stock trim, aver. drivers, no mods or tuning,
very few even dipped into the 13's let alone 12's like today
(or 9's, 10's or 11's)
 
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The 383 B body would run about a 14.6 to 14.8 at 94 to 96 mph. The R/T probably 13.6 - 13.8 at 101 to 103. So what does that really mean? In the quarter mile, the R/T will be about 150 ft (8 car lengths) ahead of the 383. Its not a little bit, and considering that the R/T probably weighs 600 lbs more, it puts into perspective the power difference between the two engines.
I'm betting that's about right. Assuming 383 is pure stock. Just to easy to upgrade intake and exhaust. I still think the transmission difference is even bigger. Old B-body is starting out at what? 2.5 gear? The 5.7 6-speed? 3.5? Give that 383 same tranny? Alot closer race.
 
The gear multiplication does make a difference. Look at the numbers:
1968 Road Runner
727 1st gear 2.45. 833 4 speed 1st gear, 2.64? Axle gear of 3.55 to 3.91. Multiply the axle gear by the 1st gear and second.
727/2.45 X 3.91 = 9.57.
833/2.64 X 3.91 = 10.33. Now consider the gear ratios of the new stuff. They shuffle around a bit. The A/T cars often have a 3.06 diff and a 4.71 1st gear. 3.06 X 4.71 =14.41 ! The 6 speed manual uses a 3.90 diff and a 2.97 1st gear. 3.90 X 2.97 = 11.58.
The gearing gets the car moving much quicker.
 
There has been reporting of 6 speed manual 5.7 terminal speeds forcing an additional upshift in the 1/4mile. This ramps up et by a fraction.
 
All the above is oh so true but, the 383 B body looks way cooler than any new challenger.
 
what a lot of guys fail to realize is these cars were not world beaters, 375 HP gross was barely eclipsing 300 net, and that original 375 HP figure was from a factory selected dyno mule . Glance at the 1972 figures for a more realistic power estimate. Most factory cars would be great to crack 275 at the tire. New 6.4 SRT is around 420-430 RWHP. R/T is probably in the low-mid 300 RWHP range. Then it comes down to power-to-weight ratio.
 
I'd stick my neck out to say that the new stuff probably has LESS parasitic losses from flywheel to tire than the old stuff. I'll bet a 376 HP 5.7 makes a greater % of net HP than a classic does.
 
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