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Who has upgraded from a Firm Feel chuck to a Borgeson?

Kern Dog

Kern Dog

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.
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I am tempted.
Currently I have a Firm Feel stage 3 with the Fast Ratio Pitman and Idler arms. Lock to lock is about 2 3/4 turns. The effort is slightly more than I like but it is not bad. The on center slop is not excessive but it is there. Nothing can be done to completely eliminate it.
I hear great things about the feel of the Borgeson but I don't know if I have read from anyone that changed from a properly performing Firm Feel to a Borgeson. My ratio now is the standard 15.7 to 1 but the Fast Ratio arms are supposed to close that up to around 12 to 1. The Borg is 14 to 1. I do know that as ratio number gets lower, the effort to steer increases. A 14 to 1 would be a little bit easier to steer.
This is not a scientific question, it is a matter of preference and experience.
I am aware of the fitment issues, the steering coupler mods, the adapter coupler, etc. These issues have been covered. I'm interested in learning about your experiences after the swap.
Thank you!
 
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Did the swap last year in August. It drives AMAZING, coming from a stock worn out box. Similar to how my 2008 Audi felt. I did the Borgeson power steering pump as well.

Unfortunately I also found out my thrust bearing was shot that same weekend, so I haven't been able to enjoy the upgrade at all. But it is a little tougher to turn than I expected, but I also needed to get an alignment after that swap which I never did, so maybe it'll drive better once that is done.
 
I second Zepplin’s experience. Replaced my old worn out box and all front end bushings and stuff - the steering is amazing. No slop at all, center or otherwise. Along with my swap, I replaced the old federal pump (that I accidentally damaged) with an original 1967 Saginaw that I rebuilt myself.

My only three outstanding issues are:

1. none of the standard power steering hoses seem to lay out in correctly - so eventually I’m going to get a custom made hose. Buying the hoses that Bergeson offers may solve this issue.
2. The power steering fluid gets a little hot for my liking, although I’ve never actually measured the temperature. Eventually, I plan on adding a power steering fluid cooler, If only to help protect my Borgeson investment.
3. Not related directly to the steering box, but steering wheel still does not fully return to center on its own when coming out of a turn. From everything that I’ve read, this is a front end steering geometry issue as our cars came from the factory with no caster. I have firm feel upper a arms that I hope will solve this issue in the future when I put them on the car.
 
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My alignment has over 4 degrees of Caster so that should pose no problem.
 
Kern Dog said:
I am tempted.
Currently I have a Firm Feel stage 3 with the Fast Ratio Pitman and Idler arms. Lock to lock is about 2 3/4 turns. The effort is slightly more than I like but it is not bad. The on center slop is not excessive but it is there. Nothing can be done to completely eliminate it.
I hear great things about the feel of the Borgeson but I don't know if I have read from anyone that changed from a properly performing Firm Feel to a Borgeson. My ratio now is the standard 15.7 to 1 but the Fast Ratio arms are supposed to close that up to around 12 to 1. The Borg is 14 to 1. I do know that as ratio number gets lower, the effort to steer increases. A 14 to 1 would be a little bit easier to steer.
This is not a scientific question, it is a matter of preference and experience.
I am aware of the fitment issues, the steering coupler mods, the adapter coupler, etc. These issues have been covered. I'm interested in learning about your experiences after the sawp.
Thank you!
Click to expand...

Are you running the fast ratio pit and idler?
 
I am with this Firm Feel unit. I would NOT if I switched to the Borgeson.
If this new unit steered like the rack and pinion in my 2007 Ram, I'd make the call and order it now. I wish I knew someone with one of these so I could beg to drive their car!
 
I really like mine, but don't have enough miles on it too say YES it is the ****.. But, a new box always beats an old box!!
 
Ran the Firm Feel in a customer's 64 A body and he wished it did more. Shannon from Redline Gauge works is running the Borg in his car that he runs autocross.He swears by it.So we put the set-up in a 64 Dodge wagon.Night and day as far as handling goes.If I ever give up manual in my cars I plan on going to the Borgeson .
 
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Go with the Borgeson. I have it on my 64 Sport Fury. I had the Steer and Gear stock style box with firmer feel. Night and day. I have the Firm Feel box on my 69 Dart 340. Too much play, and leaks at the pitman seal.
 
Hey, I can be a jerk but I'm also capable of mistakes!
 
Kern,
Roger has it in his orange challenger. Let me know when you can drive down and we can meet up with John and Dennis and head over there for some comparison testing.
As you know, I have had the firm feel stage 2 in my car for a while and when you drove it I had the fast ratio arms. I always thought it felt a bit heavy and somewhat twitchy on freeway off ramps so I removed the fast ratio arms and like it much better except for the center dead spot. I too have wondered about the borgeson swap.
Kern Dog said:
I am with this Firm Feel unit. I would NOT if I switched to the Borgeson.
If this new unit steered like the rack and pinion in my 2007 Ram, I'd make the call and order it now. I wish I knew someone with one of these so I could beg to drive their car!
Click to expand...
 
Thanks, Dwayne. That center slop just annoys me. It is like a person that is in great shape but has an ugly face...Hard to enjoy the good when that one bad thing digs at you!
I have a few upgrades in the works for this car. I have been delayed this past year since I have been so busy with work. Usually I have a few months off in between job sites but we have been doing one right after the other with no breaks.
I bought a Classic Auto Air kit well over a year ago. I am considering a Tremec 5 speed conversion along with this Borgeson deal.
 
FF stage 2 to Borgeson. One of the best things I've done to my car to make the driving experience better.
 
Oh great...JUST what I was hoping to hear!
So you had a properly functioning Firm Feel box and changed to the Borgeson....and noticed an improvement?
Can you elaborate a bit? Better in what manner?
 
With the rebuilt FF there was still to much play, or slop.
At higher speeds it almost felt like I was driving on glass.
It was still far better than the bone stock unit.

For me, the Borgeson above all else has far better road feel.
Smaller, lighter with a better turning radius.

You owe it to yourself with all the suspension upgrades you've done to your car to try the Borgeson.
 
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