Locked out distributor

Cojohnso1 said:

I have wondered why MSD has not made a variable distributor? Especially with so many boost and fuel options? Typically a high compression or high boost motor likes more timing at idel. But then asks for timing to be retarded as pressure increases. A poor man's variable timing kit? I know there are some serious variables to hurtle. But a locked down distributor that controls ignition timing electronically? Timing curves not only adjustable. But a computer could actually detect and adjust?

Of course the big boys would be interested in variable valve timing. That would require a timing chain redesign? Ummm.

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this is exactly why I use the Aacell duel point dist from the 70's it has two leads going into the distributor, the black lead has a quick disconnect in it. this is to the lead set of points. it was common then to disconnect the black wire -run two leads to a toggle switch in the car (mine was on the shifter-) the contact closed until high gear then opened that lead which retarded the timing 7 degree's. as I shifted to high I'd flip that switch to open that circuit . the difference it made was excellent given the little amount of effort made to make it work. I had a 440 powered willys, which ran in the low 11's around 128 when the retard was used, without that it ran closer to 11.60/70 speed down to 124 or so. pretty sure any duel point dist can do the same with two leads to the points. but I'm an older -old time racer and that worked at that time.

Geri said:

this is exactly why I use the Aacell duel point dist from the 70's it has two leads going into the distributor, the black lead has a quick disconnect in it. this is to the lead set of points. it was common then to disconnect the black wire -run two leads to a toggle switch in the car (mine was on the shifter-) the contact closed until high gear then opened that lead which retarded the timing 7 degree's. as I shifted to high I'd flip that switch to open that circuit . the difference it made was excellent given the little amount of effort made to make it work. I had a 440 powered willys, which ran in the low 11's around 128 when the retard was used, without that it ran closer to 11.60/70 speed down to 124 or so. pretty sure any duel point dist can do the same with two leads to the points. but I'm an older -old time racer and that worked at that time.

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I remember that. And one would think it could even be more favorable with today's builds. I know the electronic ignition does give far better spark consistency. especially at high Rs. But one would also think both could be possible? I was thinking a distributor that has variable timing on a curve as RPMs increase. But a switch would certainly be better than not.

Cojohnso1 said:

I have wondered why MSD has not made a variable distributor? Especially with so many boost and fuel options? Typically a high compression or high boost motor likes more timing at idel. But then asks for timing to be retarded as pressure increases. A poor man's variable timing kit? I know there are some serious variables to hurtle. But a locked down distributor that controls ignition timing electronically? Timing curves not only adjustable. But a computer could actually detect and adjust?

Of course the big boys would be interested in variable valve timing. That would require a timing chain redesign? Ummm.

Click to expand...

Well actually I have thought about getting this module. Effectively its a +/- 7 degree variable timing module for MSD systems like the 6AL. Tune while you drive. Issues we all have is that gas gets old ..... octane degreases. Gas from one station not equal to others WRT octane. Gas formulations changes with the season. So dialing in timing to just before detonation is more than a challenge!

Cojohnso1 said:

I remember that. And one would think it could even be more favorable with today's builds. I know the electronic ignition does give far better spark consistency. especially at high Rs. But one would also think both could be possible? I was thinking a distributor that has variable timing on a curve as RPMs increase. But a switch would certainly be better than not.

Click to expand...

I believe that MSD makes a adjustable electronic retard for ignition,I had two pickups crank trigger ign on my willys- until the auto retard came out I had a toggle switch in the car that retarded spark for starting, and at higher RPM if desired, then their auto retard/advance came out and I used that with the MSD6AL at that time. it was awesome. the entire crank trigger two pickup system was given to me by Herb McCandless ,very generous he is. I'd sent him a letter about setting up the duel crank trigger-and a complete (hand built) package of parts,toggle switches and instructions came from him. I am not a rocket scientist on these things I'm barely a semi intelligent supporter of all things fast and quick. (car related)I listen and ask Q.s and hopefully remember , at 78 remembering is now an issue. but I'd not give up a single day of racing in the late 50's 60's and 70's. those who were not there missed the very best drag racing had to offer.sure there are factory built drag race cars that out perform those ,in those days we did it ourselves, a fast/quick car was anything that could be street driven and run under 15 seconds and over 100MPH in the quarter.. ever walk through the pits/staging lanes when there was line of '65Hemi Plymouth/Dodges -Ford thunderbolts, Chev 409 SS ,even Pontiac had some great superstock cars. in '65 a Hemi Plymouth came to Lodi calif (Kingdon) sporting a then unheard of Dana 60 rear end -complete out of a truck -full floating hubs and all -because the 8-3/4's could not take the Hemi power. below is the car(s) of my time, the Schrank Bros Bay area car blown Desoto. I took the picture from atop the Fremont tower. sorry to rant on....

I'm running a MSD 6AL. I should look what available modules are out there. My 451 in a drag race Duster motor build went up about 100 horse. And the timing is certainly more sensitive.

As I think about it. We shouldn't be manually timing an engine at all? (Ignition timing.) They have EFI controllers that self adjust. So should spark control. I would think it shouldn't be rocket science. As motor ages computer would detect changing needs and attributes. A dumbed down A.I. module if you would? The more you run. The more data, thus tighter tuning?

Too rich, or lean. Too advanced or not enough timing? Should be a thing of the past. Auto detonation could as well have some controller. If too severe due to too low octane fuel? Module shuts engine down and throws error code to correct fuel requirements?

NHRA may not like because of the consistency of your performance. But too bad. Intelligence has been penalized enough in today's climate?

Cojohnso1 said:

I'm running a MSD 6AL. I should look what available modules are out there. My 451 in a drag race Duster motor build went up about 100 horse. And the timing is certainly more sensitive.

As I think about it. We shouldn't be manually timing an engine at all? (Ignition timing.) They have EFI controllers that self adjust. So should spark control. I would think it shouldn't be rocket science. As motor ages computer would detect changing needs and attributes. A dumbed down A.I. module if you would? The more you run. The more data, thus tighter tuning?

Too rich, or lean. Too advanced or not enough timing? Should be a thing of the past. Auto detonation could as well have some controller. If too severe due to too low octane fuel? Module shuts engine down and throws error code to correct fuel requirements?

NHRA may not like because of the consistency of your performance. But too bad. Intelligence has been penalized enough in today's climate?

Click to expand...

I had the MSD6AL on the willys wit h the duel plug hemi and two crank trigger pickups, one pickup went bad and the retard option was in play by then it is a plug and play unit- I used it only for ease of starting. had I not got al lthe MSD items for free ,Id have continued to run battery ignition. with the duel spark lugs I opted to go to the duel mallory magnetos. as a street car I had only 15% overdrive on the blower. NO efi, never.
I'm way out of touch with performance ignition stuff anymore, I ran two types of ignition a vertex magneto for looks and the Accell race point style dist, the accell outperformed the magneto and I suspect it is because you can only gap spark plugs to .018 -.020