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Borgeson steering box pump and line questions

rmchrgr

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Like many before me, I'm installing a Borgeson steering box into my '68 Coronet. Thing is, am struggling to find clear info on what particular pump is needed or optimal with this unit. I've gone down a few rabbit holes about pressures etc. which is more involved than I want to get - I basically want to know what works. I'm not sure what's on my car now (Federal, Thompson or otherwise) but it's not a ham can reservoir Saginaw which everyone seems to be using.

One thing I'm not sure about is why the Saginaw is the go-to pump choice. Is there a specific application the pump should be sourced from? Can anyone give me a specific reason not to use my existing (non-Saginaw) pump and lines?

I'm not concerned with achieving an OE appearance as long whatever I use bolts in place of the old one because I do in fact, have a well-seasoned Saginaw pump, pulley and brackets still mounted to the 400 in my D100. Could I swap the whole nine to my Coronet and be ready to rumble or would I be compromising/limiting the steering gear in some way? At least I can pirate the pulley and brackets from the 400 if the recommendation is to get a new pump.

Bergman Auto Craft sells the Saginaw type pump for $165 that's "optimized" for the Borgeson box though it's a little unclear what that means. Obviously I could just call up Peter and order the pump and I may do that but, if there's a Rock Auto/parts store 'stock' replacement Saginaw pump that will provide adequate pressure for the application then I'd rather not spend more than I have to.

Thanks for any input.

- Greg
 
I bought the whole kit from borgeson , came with steering box , coupler , hoses , pump with mounting bracket and bolts.
It appears to be a gm pump
everything was plug and play
 
I did the same, i didn't want the hassle of making custom hoses from old school pump to borgeson box
 
Thanks but buying an entire kit from Borgeson does not answer my question since I already have the steering box plus a bracket and pulley from my truck should I need them.

What I am trying to confirm is whether or not the original 1968 non-Saginaw pump can keep up with the Borgeson box and if that's a no-go, will my not-as-old reman Saginaw pump that's on my truck work?

If neither of these above options for a pump is feasible, then what am I looking for? And if the pump winds up being something other than the OE Chrysler configuration, what lines do I need?
 
Thanks but buying an entire kit from Borgeson does not answer my question since I already have the steering box plus a bracket and pulley from my truck should I need them.

What I am trying to confirm is whether or not the original 1968 non-Saginaw pump can keep up with the Borgeson box and if that's a no-go, will my not-as-old reman Saginaw pump that's on my truck work?

If neither of these above options for a pump is feasible, then what am I looking for? And if the pump winds up being something other than the OE Chrysler configuration, what lines do I need?
Call Borgeson and ask if the pumps you have will work. Or send them a E mail, they always answered my questions.
 
Yo Bill76, can you post a pic showing how the lines of your Borgeson box are routed?
 
OP wrote "Ham Can Saginaw".
That is funny.
 
OP wrote "Ham Can Saginaw".
That is funny.

Funny, but true.
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I posted the same topic on the Moparts handling forum and managed to get a detailed answer. Apologies to previous posters if I came off as impatient here, just trying to get this nailed down quickly and move on to the next thing.

Anyway, the short of it is that basically I'm going to get the "proper" pump from either Bergman or Borgeson since they've already determined the pressure/flow rate that works with the box.

I like to do things the hard way though. Paralysis through analysis.
 
i used this one from rockauto and no issues with my Borgeson. i needed to move the pulley to this new pump. i installed a small in-line fluid cooler while i was doing the job

a great upgrade and handles awesome


watermelon

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The short answer is that the stock PS pump is "in the range" of working with the Borgeson box. You can fiddle with the flow valve and spring to "tune" the system if you want or just bolt it together and drive it. I don't know how you intend to drive the car so I don't know if you'll be happy with it or not. A lot of these Mopar cars only get driven a few miles a year so if that is the case then who cares. If you're going to Power Tour it then you might want to spend the money and get things dialed in tight but if you only fire the car up to drive to the Burger Barn a few nights each year then I'm sure your stock pump will be fine.
 
The short answer is that the stock PS pump is "in the range" of working with the Borgeson box. You can fiddle with the flow valve and spring to "tune" the system if you want or just bolt it together and drive it. I don't know how you intend to drive the car so I don't know if you'll be happy with it or not. A lot of these Mopar cars only get driven a few miles a year so if that is the case then who cares. If you're going to Power Tour it then you might want to spend the money and get things dialed in tight but if you only fire the car up to drive to the Burger Barn a few nights each year then I'm sure your stock pump will be fine.

I drive the car all the time when practical/weather permissible - back and forth to work (30+ miles one way, mostly highway) around town, car shows and cruise ins etc. Definitely not a road race/auto cross/gymkhana type of deal, just a fun driver. However, my immediate locale is very hilly and woodsy with narrow, twisting and crumbling roads. I think I might be in a gray area between cruiser and spirited driver with the existing pump.

Besides the steering box, most of the running gear has been or is getting replaced with new stuff. Have tubular UCAs, 1" t-bars and 11/16" tie rods on the way from Firm Feel, new HD leaf springs, new Moog ball joints, pitman and idler arms, frame connectors, Hellwig bolt in sway bar etc. If I get the pump from Bergman, I will probably get a set of Bilstien shocks too. Trying to make it a 'balanced' package that provides adequate and predictable handling with little to no tinkering.
 
Sounds like it will be a good combo. Just don't be shocked if all of those aftermarket parts don't quite work together. If you approach the project as an experiment or an R&D effort you'll be better off mentally. Assume something will go wrong and that you'll need to "tinker" with it and then you won't be so upset when something does go wrong. It is really hard to completely re-engineer something as complex as a car. You are changing almost all of the parts that control the handling and feel of the car. Shock rates, spring rates, roll couples, etc. And you're doing that very big re-engineering task without having any actual data. So don't be too hard on yourself if the first iteration isn't perfect.
 
Thanks Andy, I appreciate the reply. I realize I may be going down an unknown road but I'm fairly confident I won't be going backwards. The car handled OK before, there was nothing wildly unpredictable or inadequate, it just wasn't very crisp or responsive. Bigger cars kinda feel like a couch on wheels to me, especially with the column shift and bench seat. The P.O. installed the sway bar and disc brakes but that's about as far as he went with the chassis stuff. Most of the parts are the original equipment or older stock replacements.

Prior to buying my Ram in 2017, I drove a turbo charged, 6 speed '08 Mazdaspeed3 for 135K miles. The suspension was stiff as a board but it handled like it was on rails and I could whip it around any way I wanted in an instant. There were times I'd get out of the car after a long commute and feel like I got a workout. Apples to oranges of course compared to a '68 Coronet but that's my reference for driving a fairly capable vehicle out there among the zombies glued to their phones in the left lane.

Not sure I was trying to throw all kinds of stuff at it, just kind of happened that way. Like everything else I do, replacing one or two things snowballed into a full chassis rebuild but it wasn't without 'good' reason; the 51 year old lead springs were pancaked and the shackle bushings literally crumbled when I took them apart. The tie rods were flopping around, the steering box was leaking all over the place, the T bar adjusters are way up in the LCAs, etc. so I figured it was time to start replacing parts. I have no illusions that the Coronet will handle like my old Mazda but I don't know that I'd want it to either.

I learned how to play guitar by listening to music and trying to imitate what I heard, guess I'm kinda employing a similar methodology.:screwy:
 
O.K.you got an answer from another forum, so I just want to add my experience. I went with the Bergman kit, but not the pump. I tried it with the smaller of the 2 adapters available. squealed like a pig at both locks. Tried different pumps, with the same result. Final solution was to use a pressure hoes from a 69 Dart 340, the larger box fitting, and the Bergman pump. It puts out alot more pressure than a stock Saginaw. I asked why it wasn't offered as a kit with the pump, and was told some stock pumps will work, while others don't. I guess that the stock ones vary due to being remanufactured. I also used the factory style coupler from Bergmans.
 
I didn't realize it but I do in fact have another, cleaner Saginaw pump and pulley from an '80s 318. Hopefully it will bolt up to the big block brackets.

The story that I got with the 318 was that it's an 'untouched' 50-60K mile motor that came out of some police-related vehicle and it looks like it. The pump does not look like a reman. If that's the case, it might be a good unit to try before spending the coin on a new one.
 
I didn't realize it but I do in fact have another, cleaner Saginaw pump and pulley from an '80s 318. Hopefully it will bolt up to the big block brackets.

The story that I got with the 318 was that it's an 'untouched' 50-60K mile motor that came out of some police-related vehicle and it looks like it. The pump does not look like a reman. If that's the case, it might be a good unit to try before spending the coin on a new one.
small block p/s pulley is different from big block. you will need to change it.
 
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