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My mild 440 build. Step 1.

Mark1972

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Well, after getting the '77 440 home last week I finally got it disassembled, well mostly. The block is bare, other than grease that I have to clean off tomorrow. The heads are assembled still but will be apart in a few days. I did some measurements before removing the crank. There was .004"-.0045" thrust, and an average of .003" lift on the crank checked at all 5 mains. That seems good to me. I need some input though from those who know. I'll measure the bores tomorrow, along with the crank journals and post those numbers. I'm not going to bother retorquing the mains and measuring the bores as they will be replaced anyway. I just wanted to throw a couple of numbers out today and see what people thought. Also, if anyone knows what the piston to cylinder wall clearance is supposed to be, I'd appreciate.
 
A lift check is what we do on rotating equipment to check bearing clearence before we remove the rotating assembly. By we, I mean Millwrights, which is my trade. We do this for pumps, gearboxes, etc. Anything that rotates basically. I've never rebuilt an automotive engine before, but it's basically an air pump, and most of the same principles apply.
 
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A lift check is what we do on rotating equipment to check bearing clearence before we remove the rotating assembly. By we, I mean Millwrights, which is my trade. We do this for pumps, gearboxes, etc. Anything that rotates basically. I've never rebuilt an automotive engine before, but it's basically an air pump, and most of the same principles apply.

I know what you mean by checking radial runout on pumps (impellers) or a shaft that is resting in a bearing on each end.
But this cannot be done on an engine crankshaft to measure the main bearings.
The shaft is laying in 5 bearings and checking this at a certain position might give a reading on bearing clearance, but it is likely that the next bearing(s) are stopping it from moving more while there is still more space. (you could be reading the tightest clearance, the one next to it could be much more without knowing)
Checking each individual bearing with Plastigauge for example, or using the proper measuring tools as micrometers for shafts and bores will give a better indication.

Axial runout can be done indeed very easy with a dial gauge on either end and push/pull the crank and see what you get.
If you go to this extend of checking first, remove the crankshaft and get individual measurements to be 100% sure if these bearings are still good.
Remove the crank, reinstall the bearings in their original position and bolt the bearing caps back down to specs, then measure the bore.
Measure the crank bearing faces and you will know exactly each clearance, after knowing that you can determine if you require new bearings.
 
Axial run out was measured. It came to around .004". I referred to it as thrust, because it's the thrust bearing that holds axial positioning. I forgot to mention the runout numbers, also done at each journal with the main cap removed. All under .001". The lift check that was done was by simply using a lever, in this case a piece of round hickory to pry up on the crank to give clearance. I have plastiguage, and will use it for assembly. All bearings will be replaced during rebuilding. I simply wanted an indication of current wear. Thank you for the input. Are you an engine builder?
 
How much of the original engine are you hoping to reuse? Does it have much ring groove at the top of the bore? Is it headed to a machine shop? If it is they should check everything for you.
Beware of old plastigauge that doesn't crush and gives you a false reading.
Usually the ring wear pattern is the best way too tell engine miles. The crank and bottom end is hard to tell because it has as much to do with maintenance as use. I wouldn't worry too much about what your measuring till its apart....just make sure rods and mains are marked and tear it down. Then spend time measuring...
 
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what is your deck clearance all 4 corners?
you need to know about how much it will take to clean up / square up the block and to get right compression height pistons to get the right amount of quench
you can stick the same piston and rod back in all 4 corners without the rings to measure
you do not have to put the cap on just the bearing and crank at tdc for each hole
measure along the pin axis so you do not get piston rock
 
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If I understand this correctly the "lift" is total clearance, .003, a bearing clearance of .015". That's great. Measure everything.
 
There was little to no ridge at the top. A little build up that came right off with some 320, but no issues sliding the pistons out. I take these measurements because I have all the micrometers, gauges, dial indicators, etc. I was a machinist for 13 years before I switched to full time millwrighting. I just kind of enjoy taking my own measurements. Thanks for the tip on deck clearance. Hadn't thought of that. Yes, it is going to the machine shop. They will of course take there own measurements. I'm hoping to reuse the block, 452 heads, cast crank and rods, and maybe even the intake. I'm not building big power with my first engine build. I'd be happy with 325hp and 375 torque, or something in that area. I'll get it to the machine shop this week sometime and hopefully have some answers within a couple of weeks.
 
All bearings will be replaced during rebuilding. I simply wanted an indication of current wear. Thank you for the input. Are you an engine builder?

I was under the impression you wanted to continue using them bearings if ok, if you change them regardless it doesn't matter so much.
As you guys mentioned, cylinder wall ridge is i think the best indication to see if the motor has run much.
No, I am not an engine builder, this stuff is a hobby and interest.
 
So the bores in the cylinders measured:
1) 4.3218"
2) 4.3204"
3) 4.3211"
4) 4.3212"
5) 4.3208"
6) 4.3215"
7) 4.3203"
8) 4.3205"

The bores were measured at the mid point and is the average of measuring twice 90 degrees apart. I hope that makes sense.

The crank main journals measured front to back, at 90 degrees and averaged.
1) 2.7495"
2) 2.7495"
3) 2.7498"
4) 2.7493"
5) 2.7495"

The rod journals also measured from front of crank back, the same as the mains.
1) 2.3734"
2) 2.3740"
3) 2.3739"
4) 2.3738"
5) 2.3738"
6) 2.3739"
7) 2.3739"
8) 2.3741"

The deck height numbers were interesting. If I used number 8 cylinder as the zero point because it was lowest, then this is what I got:
8) 0.000
2) +.008"
1) +.007"
7) +.013"

So obviously the block would need to be decked to get everything to zero. While the bores seem ok, I'm assuming a .030" bore and align bore would get everything square and perpendicular. The heads I dont know yet. I've read if cast heads are out more than .003" of flat, they should be milled. Makes sense to me. Also with the crank. All my numbers seem to be ok, but the machine shop will decide on grinding or just polishing. Below I've put the rebuild kit I'm considering. As far as the top end, if anyone could suggest a cam kit I would appreciate it. I'm hoping for a final compression of around 9-1, with 9.5 maximum. Unless I find a good deal on an aluminum intake, I'll probably use the factory unit. There is a guy locally who knows the thermoquad well, and has non lean burn units sitting around waiting for a home. I've already decided to run headers, which should go nicely with my already installed 2.5" dual exhaust and 40 Series Flowmasters. So any thoughts on the measurements or other tips on what to do, a cam kit, etc, would be appreciated.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fem-csmhp817-311/make/chrysler
 
The only machine work I see needed is the deck. Check the bore for taper and if that is within limits consider just a quick hone to break the glaze and stay with that bore size.How are the pistons?? If they check out you could reuse them.
I wouldn't be so quick to go 30 over when 10 will do,,,,,when needed.
 
To get a bit more meaning from your measurements I would do this:
1) measure near the top of ring travel in two directions, and don't average. Then measure the where the ring don't travel in two directions. This will tell you something about taper and roundness.
 
You can get an Performer intake for a song these days, because everyone wants the Performer RPM. Works just like the original, only lighter. Blueprinting the deck on a Mopar BB is a good idea since the factory wasn't fussy about being symmetrical.
 
good tips
go .020 if you can
use the .028 Mr gasket head gaskets
new cam
BVVC with low compression 440
I just posted in the ForAbodiesONLY 318 cam stickie some short cam comparisons- they were for 318 but a good place to start for any Low Compression MOtor
 
The summit kit with the 2355 pistons is ok. But I would suggest looking at a much lighter piston with a 1/16 ring. It's not going to be much more money and you will gain a few hp with the narrow ring....a lighter piston would be closer to the factory piston weight...and easier to balance ( if you have it balanced). Also the better piston will likely have deeper valve releifs for more cam clearance for anything future upgrades. I'd consider wiseco's or srp pistons or something comparable in the compression you have mentioned.
As far as Cam recommendations... I think the forum could help you more if you lay out what your looking for and how your car is set up, rear gears? 4 speed in the future/ stall speed? manual or power brakes? stock valve springs or a upgrade? the kind of idle quality your after?
...I know affordable is important too.
But better pistons and arp rod bolts I would invest in upfront.
 
I guess I hadn't really mentioned the overall plan yet because it's going to be next summer before it gets done, but never to early to plan I suppose. The car is my restored 1970 Plymouth Satellite. A 318/904 car originally. A weekend driver that would see hopefully around 3000 miles a year of driving made up of city and highway. The rear gearing is 3.55 with Yukon gears and posi. The rear springs were already upgraded to the heavier GTX units. I think the dream of a 4 speed car has been cancelled, and I'll be happy with the 727. The car has power steering and power brakes. My car will never see a race track. For me it's about reliability and having an enjoyable car that still pushes you back into the seat when you lean into the throttle a bit. My car is a drum brake all the way around car, and I may look to discs up front in the future. I've already had the 2.5" dual exhaust with 40 series Flowmasters installed, so I think I've got enough flow in the exhaust. I will be running headers on this car with the 440, and not manifolds. The car needs to be able to idle nicely and sit in traffic during those times when I'm out in rush hour. I've already found a 26" radiator to re-core that should keep temps reasonable. As I'd mentioned earlier, as this is my first engine build, I'm keeping things simple. A compression ratio of around 9-1 would be best I think. Will probably use the original intake although I will be changing to a non lean burn thermoquad. I haven't done much research on distributor/ignition yet, and welcome any and all thoughts. Regarding valve springs, I wouldn't know where to begin. I guess I would look at ordering a complete cam kit that comes with everything. I'm looking for 325hp and 375torque, or there abouts. If it's a little more that's fine, but cost is a factor and as long as they aren't cracked or beyond use, I'll stick with the 452 heads. $2000 in head work or aluminum heads just isnt in the budget right now. Being in Canada, you have to add about 35% to whatever price you see on Jegs or Summit.
Well, that's about it. Always appreciate the tips and questions. The next step is to get the heads disassembled and get everything to the machine shop this week. Have to make sure everything is usable before I start buying parts. Have a great week all.
 
With a small cam and iron heads stay at 9-1 compression. Higher with a small cam can detonate on pump gas.
Doug
 
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