Selling collector cars, how's the market for you?

Timmayy said:

I do find the market for our older cars to be very slow. Prices are down. Now's a good time to buy. I did. I also see a lot of the same cars with price drops. I look constantly just to stay with the trends.

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Agreed, prices are down. However, I don't think it's time to buy. If you wait another few years, I think prices will be even lower. Sad to say, but now is the time to sell if that's what you are considering.... because if you wait, your selling price will be even lower. I tell you who really stands to loose big time are some of these dealers who have large inventories of muscle cars for sale.

http://everydayclassiccars.com/best-time-year-buy-a-classic-car/

The Best Time of Year to Buy a Classic Car
Posted on February 12, 2014 by Cliff Glansen
For years, you have flipped the pages of car magazines and watched your friends purchase their dream cars. Finally, the right time has arrived and you want to buy a classic car. Whether it is a 1957 Chevy Bel Air or a Chevy C-10 classic truck, you can never really go wrong when pursuing your fantasy car. Yet while the time might be right for you to take the leap financially or emotionally, there are certain times of year where it is a seller’s market and others when the market is more beneficial to buyers. Here are two best times of the year to buy a classic car.

Buy a Classic Car in Late October to January
Perhaps the best time of the year to buy a classic car is in late fall. There are a few reasons for this little known fact. First, since they are at least 20 years old, most classic cars do not adapt very well to inclement weather conditions during the winter. As a result, they often need to be stored for the winter months, starting in December through to March. Sellers are just beginning the process of putting the car in storage and winterizing their cars, which can be expensive. If they do not want to pay for storage, they might be more willing to negotiate or lower their asking price. Second, many classic car owners want the extra cash earned from selling their car in time for the holidays to purchase another car or other gifts.

Buying a Classic Car in Late March to Early April
A second time of year useful for buyers of classic cars is late March to early April. Why? The main reason is that that is the season that many around the United States dread: tax time. Many collectors are seeking out quick deals to give them the necessary funds to settle the taxes they owe the government. Consequently, the period before taxes are due on April 15 is a great time for consumers to buy a classic car.

To discover more information on buying a classic car, please visit our classic car resource guide.

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2018/...-in-2019-and-a-few-more-for-the-car-business/

Five predictions for the collector car hobby in 2019 – and a few more for the car business

https://www.streetmusclemag.com/news/classic-car-sales-drop-as-new-buyers-fail-to-appear/

Classic Car Sales Drop As New Buyers Fail To Appear


By CHRIS DEMORRO MARCH 10, 2014


In the early 2000s, the generation known as the Baby Boomers was flush with easy credit and cash from a booming stock market, and they spent a whole lotta money on cars. Not just new cars either; Boomers helped push the market for classic cars, especially those from the 1950s and 60s, through the roof. The Great Recession corrected some of the madness, though those that survived with their finances kept buying.

It seems, however, the market may have finally hit its saturation market. Rob Sass of Hagerty Insurance wrote an article for Car & Driver that claims the prices paid for classic American cars from the 1950s have flat lined, or in some cases even dropped.

The peak of the car-buying madness came in August of 2007, and prices haven’t even come close to “recovering” to those same insane levels. The value of a 1954 Buick Skylark Convertible (pictured above), for example, peaked at over $200,000. In January, a ’54 Buick Skylark convertible sold for just $110,000 at auction. That’s a precipitous drop if I’ve ever seen one.




Not every car has suffered such a shocking drop in value, though many aren’t aren’t accruing any value either. Cars like the 1957 Chevy Bel-Air Convertible are worth the same today as they were right around the crash, which for those who bought these cars as investments, is a very bad thing. That said, there are some cars, like the Shelby Cobra, and just about anything with a HEMI, that are still considered investment grade, though not always. For example, the prices for the long-lusted-after Chrysler 300C Convertibles has stayed pretty much flat, HEMI or not.

Why is this happening? For one, many people simply don’t have the money to start even modest car collections anymore. Baby Boomers are getting older, and the pool of potential buyers is dwindling. The average car collector is 56 years old, but the next-biggest group of consumers, Millennials, don’t show the same interest in the vehicles of their grandfathers. Also, most of them can’t afford anything other than Grandma’s hand-me-down Oldsmobile Delta 88, nevermind dropping $40,000 or $50,000 on a collector car.

But it isn’t all bad news for investors, as the values of 1950s European cars has been soaring as of late, with a 1954 Mercedes gullwing race car nearing $30 million. Unfortunately for American car collectors, it appears the good times have come to an end, and the next few decades aren’t going to do the market any favors.

We could see a repeat of what happened to the market for cars from before World War II. As collectors die off, massive collections full of cars nobody really wants will hit the market, leading to a glut of classic vehicles to buy, but few buyers with the cash or interest in them.

The result? The most valuable vehicles will continue to accrue value, but the less-desirable, less-known models will continue to fall in value at best. At worst, the scrap value may exceed any collector value these vehicles once had. It seems impossible to consider, but if what they say about Millennials disinterest in cars is true, who will be left to take up the mantle after the last of the Boomers are gone?

Completely agree with that last post. Small point in case, several years ago I was at SEMA, I was talking to a guy at a booth that sold gauges, I was looking at AFR gauges for my Cuda. We started talking about carbs v. EFI, the guy I was talking to and his buddy were in their 30's; the one guy says "I've never had or worked on a car with a carb, I always wanted to learn about it but never have". His buddy said the same thing, I was at a loss for words because every car guy I know or have met up to that time grew up learning how to tune a carb. This is a snap shot of where the car market is at an going to. Nothing against carbs or old cars, but its a different community of car person now and while they appreciate the old cars, they don't understand them and don't have an interest really in them from a mechanical standpoint. Yes, they are simpler, even rudimentary but the younger person today grew up on senors, EFI, ABS, etc. and this is where their comfort level lies and this is where their money is going.

themechanic said:

https://www.streetmusclemag.com/news/classic-car-sales-drop-as-new-buyers-fail-to-appear/

Classic Car Sales Drop As New Buyers Fail To Appear

View attachment 866309
By CHRIS DEMORRO MARCH 10, 2014


View attachment 866310In the early 2000s, the generation known as the Baby Boomers was flush with easy credit and cash from a booming stock market, and they spent a whole lotta money on cars. Not just new cars either; Boomers helped push the market for classic cars, especially those from the 1950s and 60s, through the roof. The Great Recession corrected some of the madness, though those that survived with their finances kept buying.

View attachment 866311It seems, however, the market may have finally hit its saturation market. Rob Sass of Hagerty Insurance wrote an article for Car & Driver that claims the prices paid for classic American cars from the 1950s have flat lined, or in some cases even dropped.

The peak of the car-buying madness came in August of 2007, and prices haven’t even come close to “recovering” to those same insane levels. The value of a 1954 Buick Skylark Convertible (pictured above), for example, peaked at over $200,000. In January, a ’54 Buick Skylark convertible sold for just $110,000 at auction. That’s a precipitous drop if I’ve ever seen one.




Not every car has suffered such a shocking drop in value, though many aren’t aren’t accruing any value either. Cars like the 1957 Chevy Bel-Air Convertible are worth the same today as they were right around the crash, which for those who bought these cars as investments, is a very bad thing. That said, there are some cars, like the Shelby Cobra, and just about anything with a HEMI, that are still considered investment grade, though not always. For example, the prices for the long-lusted-after Chrysler 300C Convertibles has stayed pretty much flat, HEMI or not.

View attachment 866312Why is this happening? For one, many people simply don’t have the money to start even modest car collections anymore. Baby Boomers are getting older, and the pool of potential buyers is dwindling. The average car collector is 56 years old, but the next-biggest group of consumers, Millennials, don’t show the same interest in the vehicles of their grandfathers. Also, most of them can’t afford anything other than Grandma’s hand-me-down Oldsmobile Delta 88, nevermind dropping $40,000 or $50,000 on a collector car.

But it isn’t all bad news for investors, as the values of 1950s European cars has been soaring as of late, with a 1954 Mercedes gullwing race car nearing $30 million. Unfortunately for American car collectors, it appears the good times have come to an end, and the next few decades aren’t going to do the market any favors.

View attachment 866313We could see a repeat of what happened to the market for cars from before World War II. As collectors die off, massive collections full of cars nobody really wants will hit the market, leading to a glut of classic vehicles to buy, but few buyers with the cash or interest in them.

The result? The most valuable vehicles will continue to accrue value, but the less-desirable, less-known models will continue to fall in value at best. At worst, the scrap value may exceed any collector value these vehicles once had. It seems impossible to consider, but if what they say about Millennials disinterest in cars is true, who will be left to take up the mantle after the last of the Boomers are gone?

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I think much holds true, but the article was written in March 2014 & didn't foresee the boom we are currently in.

We will continue to see a rise in resto rods, like them or hate them.

Around Tx the younger generation will buy a 60's C 10 Chevy before a real musclecar, cheaper too!!

I am 71 and have owned many since bout '85. I am woreout, I still enjoy working on them but it is hard, I just need few decent drivers, (nothing worth too many $$) ! instead of 6-7 and NOT to keep buying projects!!!!!

Like that article said, a growing interest in the malaise cars, those cars are cheap to buy, and most of the mid age buyers relate to them. A growing segment, but how long before they are worth more than squat!??

I like cars that deliver a lot of joy for a very few $$. Just want my $$ back when I turn one loose.
c

steve from staten island said:

I don't understand it, I read all the time how great the economy is and how many jobs are unfilled, you'd think more people would have the disposable income to buy these cars.

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Yeah economy is great, and unemployment is low... Yet it seems many people have gotten back into using credit and getting loans for stuff. Most likely getting to a point where they are spending more than they earn like pre-2007-09.

So people who have actual cash and let alone large amounts of cash to spend on a "toy" would be more difficult to find. Along with people generally won't spend when there is uncertain things going on. From what is happening in politics here to world economic factors.

Also I think due to the good economy and stuff there are lots of cars out there for sale with over saturating the market to available demand. Most likely because so many think there are people out there with money to spend. Yet we see cars sitting for long periods of time before they sell (usually with the price dropping to a point someone gets interested enough). Then to go along with this being the off season to sell a classic car.

So I do believe there are many factors that includes what I posted above. To include like what some others have stated about younger people not being interested, and not caring to learn. Along with as the older generation of folks pass on the cars I think we are going to see even more classic cars flooding the market driving prices further down.

Of course there are always exceptions and anything rare/super desirable will most likely still bring money.

Last thing would be there is so much knowledge that you all have. Younger people don't have access like maybe older generations did to learn how to do things on these older cars. These forums are great but have been dying. Facebook groups can be ok but so much miss-information with non-helpful stuff. Youtube is great to help and show others how to do things. I ask you all to please share your knowledge via an outlet like Youtube. Younger folks will or can use that to learn how to do things on these older cars and it may help to keep people more interested in keeping these old cars on the road.

I have done a few videos that I tried to do straight to the point and no where near as polished as others on Youtube. Yet that is the thing your videos don't have to be fancy and just need to be helpful.

The FABO site is huge and getting bigger every day. Most people on there are buying projects, because you either you buy a total project or one done. Not too many in between. Mostly slant and 318 cars, darts, dusters, etc. Most people that are into the less desirable cars have less desposible income. Rich people buy the best.
There are quit a few younger generation that appears there. Again, A bodies are affordable. They can be made whatever a person wants. Few people whine when someone buys a 72 Dart, pulls the woreout slant and drops in a 360 magnum. Cheap muscle hotrods. Thing is even if a guy does all his own work, it an be hard to just your $ back out. The A bodies guys in general can be tough!
One thing I think hurts the hobby is the number of people that buy a project and 10 years later it is apart, half done, not being driven and enjoyed. Not everyone gets their fn from the hard and dirty work in the garage. It takes time, $, ability, commitment. The fruit withers on the vine.

Korican said:

Yeah economy is great, and unemployment is low... Yet it seems many people have gotten back into using credit and getting loans for stuff. Most likely getting to a point where they are spending more than they earn like pre-2007-09.

So people who have actual cash and let alone large amounts of cash to spend on a "toy" would be more difficult to find. Along with people generally won't spend when there is uncertain things going on. From what is happening in politics here to world economic factors.

Also I think due to the good economy and stuff there are lots of cars out there for sale with over saturating the market to available demand. Most likely because so many think there are people out there with money to spend. Yet we see cars sitting for long periods of time before they sell (usually with the price dropping to a point someone gets interested enough). Then to go along with this being the off season to sell a classic car.

So I do believe there are many factors that includes what I posted above. To include like what some others have stated about younger people not being interested, and not caring to learn. Along with as the older generation of folks pass on the cars I think we are going to see even more classic cars flooding the market driving prices further down.

Of course there are always exceptions and anything rare/super desirable will most likely still bring money.

Last thing would be there is so much knowledge that you all have. Younger people don't have access like maybe older generations did to learn how to do things on these older cars. These forums are great but have been dying. Facebook groups can be ok but so much miss-information with non-helpful stuff. Youtube is great to help and show others how to do things. I ask you all to please share your knowledge via an outlet like Youtube. Younger folks will or can use that to learn how to do things on these older cars and it may help to keep people more interested in keeping these old cars on the road.

I have done a few videos that I tried to do straight to the point and no where near as polished as others on Youtube. Yet that is the thing your videos don't have to be fancy and just need to be helpful.

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The economy is good, its not great and while unemployment is low, its hanging on a thread, add in instability around the world.
I still dont think that affects the classic car hobby but I absolutely agree that younger people never learned to work on cars like my generation did, however that is not entirely their fault given the complexity of cars over the last couple of decades.
Young people today, many of us might say they are just interested in old iron, they may be into cars, just not the ones we relish and the question begs, why should they.
Their generation like ours was, has their own likes and dislikes, im happy some of them just are into the car hobby
My other thoughts is the hobby now has many people with unrealistic ideas due in part to TV restoration shows and these televised car auctions that put so much emphasis on only certain models and types of cars
What I know is this, I had my car in only one show, ive driven it very seldom this past year but yet ive had many more than a few ask me is it a Road Runner, no I reply its a Sport Satellite, does it have a Hemi, no its a 383 and why dont I put a six pack on it.
My thoughts are were did these people learn all of these Mopar related terms
When they see what these Hemi and six pack cars cost, its out of range for most budgets. I think they'd rather just buy a new sporty type car that they can use as daily transportation

Great thread, I think I agree with everyone. I have to say I'm not interested in Mopars older than 1968 and I'm 63 now.

I agree great thread, it would take me a week to read it all, a lot of us have known that this was going to happen the older the people that would buy these old cars get the less of these old cars are bought and sold

The dollars and cents. I have always ( from back in the 80's) felt a person should be able to buy a GOOD project car of a fairly desirable model, put $ into it as in a restoration of some degee, be it perfect resto or a cosmetic driver, do all the work ( labor) and be able to sell it and at least get your $$ invested back out. I have done a lot of cars since the 80's as my hobby, some perfect, nut and bolt deals, mostly making just solid decent drivers. A completey restored 69 383 Roadrunner used to be this, say back about early 90's: A complete project car costs me $1000, after it was perfect it would be worth about $7500 . Today a sorry 383 69 Runner will cost me $5-6000, and done it is worth about $25000. Now I know people will say worth more, etc. but real world where I live and have lived Tx and Missouri, this is it. If it takes me a year or two, to get more than that $25 I would ay BOooooo. Either way I just get my $ back I put in and that is it.
If I bought a decently desirable model as a complete project, running, for what it is actually worth, NOT some CL sky in the pie price, I have always been able to haul it home, clean it up, get it running/driving and sell it and make a for my investment and time. This was easy bk in th 80's and 90's, hard today to do such. Back them these cars help pay for my so called " keepers". I wish I had kept my keepers !!!
Times chang.
I saw a # 383 69 RR yesterday, I know the guy.Body/paint just done, drive anywhere deal, $20,000, He turned down an offer of $18. I did not crawl over it, but it neede some new carpet, whatever. If anyone is interested I all give is contact number SE Tx

I think the faction that will be hit hardest right now are the flippers. People who buy low and try to just flip it at ridiculous prices are going to find that those days are over....for now. Those in the hobby will benefit if you don’t think you can recoup all of your money spent on a car, and learn to enjoy it instead. I have way below market value in all my cars, and can sell them and recoup my money, but I don’t want to sell them.

I have one to sell right now, at my price, and the buyer is waiting on me to finish a few things he wants done. It’s not a high price for what the car is, but is double what I have into it. And of course I plan on using the money to put into one of my other cars. The hobby hasn’t hurt me at all, I’ve always made my money and then some, because I’m known as “the cheap parts guy”.

cosgig said:

I think the faction that will be hit hardest right now are the flippers. People who buy low and try to just flip it at ridiculous prices are going to find that those days are over....for now. Those in the hobby will benefit if you don’t think you can recoup all of your money spent on a car, and learn to enjoy it instead. I have way below market value in all my cars, and can sell them and recoup my money, but I don’t want to sell them.

I have one to sell right now, at my price, and the buyer is waiting on me to finish a few things he wants done. It’s not a high price for what the car is, but is double what I have into it. And of course I plan on using the money to put into one of my other cars. The hobby hasn’t hurt me at all, I’ve always made my money and then some, because I’m known as “the cheap parts guy”.

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Buying the right brand and model has a world to do whether your work into a car will enable you to work on it, and later sell and get more than your initial $$ back. I got interested in F bodies a few years ago. Basically the malaise cars of the late 70's! I enjoy getting interested in a car I never had before and learning all there is to know about that model. Here is the funny part of this. I bought it for the perfet grill I needed for a more worthy model a 76 Roadrunnr, the car mentioned is rust free wagon 318 car non runner. I was looking around Marketplace back home in Springfield Mo area, and I listed it there for sale at $1000. Bout what I consider it worth retail. I had 18 hits in 2 days there, course no one will drive 550 miles one way for it. I see my mistake and advertise it here in SE Tx. I had 2 hits in 2 months!!!!! ha I have a trade gong of for a 4 door 64 ply parts car.
I just finished the paint on 2 Volares and just offered them for sale. I have never sold a Mopar at a loss, I have restored some and just got my $ backout. I will see if I can break even on the slant car and the 318 RR I should make a couple $$. Anyway, I will not sell and lost a nickel. Hobby or not. It can just sit here other wise.
But her in SE Tx, this is Chevy country. If I was in the NE a rust free straight freshly painted Volare driver would sell at a fair price and the byer would be tickled for such car and that the frame is not rotted out on!! ha

Nobody wants to waste hard earned dollars overspending on a car and its restoration, but some need to remember its a hobby and not a money making endeavor.
If you do a restoration thinking you want to break even or even show a profit when you decide to part with your hobby car, you may be disappointed. Now it may not be financial sound to sink 50 grand in restoring a ordinary four door car but if thats what a person wants, then im all for it.

I put way way to many dollars into my car, knowing id never recoup the money. So what, it makes me happy, takes my mind off of things, i waited 30 plus year to get back into cars.
When I do sell this car I will take a loss and I dont care because if I did care, I would never gotten back into the old car scene.

I had to change a hot water dispenser for a friend yesterday. He can't work under a sink anymore. He just cant do it as he is in too much pain.
His cancer is spreading and he told me during a conversation that he knows he will be dead soon. I fear he is correct
Im not worried about losing some money on a hobby that I enjoy and my friend is one reason why.

I have raised, trained, bred, showed, bought, sold, traded quarter horses since I was 13. I am 71. It has been my livelihood, my passion, by business, my hobby...all of that...lots of hard work many times for naught. I have done same with my Mopar hobby since '85. Again, lot of hard work, many times for the sheer pleasure. If I love it, it is really not work. Sorta, kinda...
Like Steve above said ^^^^^^ the hobby give him pleasure that is not necesarily measured by the checkbook. You just can't put a price on happiness. I am glad he did not wait too long to start something he loves.
This thread started out as how how the hobby been for us. Food for thought. BJ only helps set the price f certain models and built with certain quality. But, in general, we the hobbiest, we set the market for our cars, when we sell and when we pay.
If no one pays our asking price and we come down a dollar or $20,000 and the buyer pays, we set that price be it good or bad!??? Or IF we don't feel our cars are worth squat, neither will the buyer???
Last car I sold I had piddled with for 3 years, a $3500 car. Buyer asked how I figured it was worth $3500??? I said, it is worth that much to ME.

Like many/most here I have bought and sold a lot of cars thus far in my life time and to be very honest, while in some cases I made money, more times than not I broke even or lost money. Perhaps it was the models or the price I paid but for my hobby cars I never really cared because I wanted the car, spent money on what I did and enjoyed the car. No, I do not like losing money but I also do not think it is unusable to do so unless you are a flipper. I can say with confidence that I have never considered what I was putting into my cars as it related to resale value. When I was 18, I put $10K into a 74 Challenger and ultimately sold that car for $1500, no I was not happy at the time but I was not surprised. More recently, I finished up my 73 Cuda, I have over $50K into that car (I kept very precise records) but I know I will never get that out of it and I don't car because I don't intend to sell it, same as my 70 Challenger, the 70 RR I am doing now and the 68 Cuda I will do next. Can't take it with you...

The sometimes stupid pricing seen associated with classic cars is a direct result of investors and the auctions; both of which feed off one another. The trickle down is that everyone with any model remotely similar to something they have seen sell online or at an auction is now worth vastly more than what it should be. Cars that are in reality parts cars are suddenly "ready for restoration" and perhaps some of them are, but many could barely be called cars anymore. I have all the classic Mopars I need so I am good, but the younger generation cannot afford even a roller and thus have but one more reason to ignore them.

barbee6043 said:

Buying the right brand and model has a world to do whether your work into a car will enable you to work on it, and later sell and get more than your initial $$ back. I got interested in F bodies a few years ago. Basically the malaise cars of the late 70's! I enjoy getting interested in a car I never had before and learning all there is to know about that model. Here is the funny part of this. I bought it for the perfet grill I needed for a more worthy model a 76 Roadrunnr, the car mentioned is rust free wagon 318 car non runner. I was looking around Marketplace back home in Springfield Mo area, and I listed it there for sale at $1000. Bout what I consider it worth retail. I had 18 hits in 2 days there, course no one will drive 550 miles one way for it. I see my mistake and advertise it here in SE Tx. I had 2 hits in 2 months!!!!! ha I have a trade gong of for a 4 door 64 ply parts car.
I just finished the paint on 2 Volares and just offered them for sale. I have never sold a Mopar at a loss, I have restored some and just got my $ backout. I will see if I can break even on the slant car and the 318 RR I should make a couple $$. Anyway, I will not sell and lost a nickel. Hobby or not. It can just sit here other wise.
But her in SE Tx, this is Chevy country. If I was in the NE a rust free straight freshly painted Volare driver would sell at a fair price and the byer would be tickled for such car and that the frame is not rotted out on!! ha

Click to expand...

Well, you know me well enough from FABO to know that I cut my teeth on early A bodies. Way back when nobody even cared about them, I was the only one restoring one. I’ve made a ton of money on them, all a little at a time. They were cheap, parts were hard to find for them, so they sold for a good price. I still love em, but even they are becoming few and far between, and the prices went way up on them.

Here’s a car I bought I’ll use as an example. The guy wanted $949 for this car all taken apart. Father/son project that never happened. I offered $900, got the car, and a boatload of parts. The car ended up having a 1971 360 and 727 in it. I hung all the parts back on it, put a battery in and it fired right up. I sold it for $1800, and sold most all of the parts I got with it for over $2500. I still have 2 new qtrs, an 8 3/4” rear, mint dash pad, and a bunch of parts I used for my car. Just another good deal, and even at $1800, I made money and the buyer got a great little car. Cheap parts guy strikes again.