440, 12 years since it last ran

Joined the forums awhile ago but have been mostly lurking. Got my new garage done and the car moved in, so the time has come to get to work. A little history first, bought the car when I was 15 as a rolling chassis and got a nice 440 out of a junkyard Charger. Had it rebuilt in 2000 with, best as I can remember

9.5 comp

Forged crank and rods

906 heads ported with 2.08 intake 1.74 ex

0.060 bore (one cylinder had to be sleeved)

.484 Mopar purple cam

M-1 Intake

Holley 800 cfm carb

Pulled a 727 out of a junkyard also, can’t remember what it came out of but was built with a manual valve body. 3500 stall converter. 8 ¾ rear with 4.30 gears and 28x10 slicks.



I raced 3 years when I was in the Air Force but after I got out I moved around for work and didn’t have a garage so it sat in the car trailer for the past 12 years. Last time it ran was 2007. Now that my budget is no longer shoestring and I have a nice heated garage to spend my winter in I want to get it track ready.

Lots of work to do and now that I am a little older and wiser (subjective, I know but give it to me!), I want to do it cleaner and better. But I’ve also been out of the game for so long I am looking for some advice.

I would rather not touch the short block if at all possible. I know that I need a new cam/lifter/push rods/ and valve springs at a minimum. I am considering aluminum heads since I already have to buy all of that. I also need a new carb but from what I understand the M-1 single plane is still a decent intake.

Car ran 11.80’s back in the day but I always struggled with a major stumble off the line. Messed around with the cams on the carb but never had much luck getting it to launch consistently. Always had the best luck if I got to the line right around 180 degrees but if it was colder than that I would bring it up to about 2800 rpm on foot break then launch it and it falls on its face and have to peddle the throttle to keep it running then she would take off.

So what I’m looking for is advice on cam/lifters/valve springs. If I’m doing all that should I go aluminum heads? Can I get a higher compression ratio without touching the short block? Solid lifters perhaps? Carb choice? If you were building this for pure track use, what would you put into it?



Edit: updated valve sizes

All my racing days are old school, so I won't be much help with today's cams, heads, and lifters. I did want to ask what was done to the rear quarters? Looks like they could be 66-67 Charger.

Not sure what your budget is, but Edelbrock sells an E Street cylinder head with 75 cc chambers, which will up your compression a bit, and they are very reasonably priced.

Are those 6 pack pistons? if so, I'm sure you know the notches in them were meant for 2.08/1.74 valves and will cause a clearance issue with your larger valves if you go too big on the cam. I had an old bracket engine I bought that had 6 Pack pistons with the larger valves in the heads, and every piston had a valve hit on the edges of the factory valve cut. It never bent a valve, but it was there

As to cams, I'm sure you will get more specific advice than me, but I do prefer solids..

I personally wouldn't run less than an 850 double pumper for a carb, especially on a track toy. In my admittedly limited experience, 440's love fuel.

Have fun, glad to see you are back into the game.

Jerry Hall said:

All my racing days are old school, so I won't be much help with today's cams, heads, and lifters. I did want to ask what was done to the rear quarters? Looks like they could be 66-67 Charger.

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I believe they were rolled like that by a prior owner. I think all the metal is original.

Paul Secoy said:

Not sure what your budget is, but Edelbrock sells an E Street cylinder head with 75 cc chambers, which will up your compression a bit, and they are very reasonably priced.

Are those 6 pack pistons? if so, I'm sure you know the notches in them were meant for 2.08/1.74 valves and will cause a clearance issue with your larger valves if you go too big on the cam. I had an old bracket engine I bought that had 6 Pack pistons with the larger valves in the heads, and every piston had a valve hit on the edges of the factory valve cut. It never bent a valve, but it was there

As to cams, I'm sure you will get more specific advice than me, but I do prefer solids..

I personally wouldn't run less than an 850 double pumper for a carb, especially on a track toy. In my admittedly limited experience, 440's love fuel.

Have fun, glad to see you are back into the game.

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The budget is "bang for the buck". Could I spend a grand and get it running....sure. Could I spend 4k on a new top end...ya but I'm not sure I'm that invested yet. That's why I am hoping to see what people have to say and then I can kind of weigh....and price my options.

The motor was built by an experienced shop that did a lot of mopars. They coordinated the head work with the guy that ported and flowed them. So I would like to think all the parts work together. That being said, 19 years later and I can't remember what is what in the bottom end.

11.80 wasn't to bad for a .484 cam. You can definitely gain from a cam swap. I would go with a solid. You could probably be creative and tweek the valve releifs on the 6 pack pistons to get the proper clearance if you find out it doesn't clear. Regardless of the cam upgrade you need to use clay to check your valve clearance. We've done a .557 mopar solid with the same combo you have and it cleared...however we were running 2.08 intakes and 1.88 exhaust. Their are much better cam designs now...we've been happy working with bullet cams and they have custom ground the last 5 cams for us for really no more then ordering from summit with quick turnarounds. It's my understanding someone from crower is on this FBBO .. We've bought a cam from them recently too.. I would not do mopar performance anymore. Jones and hughes also would be 2 cam companies 2 consider. You could keep with the hydraulic cam but for what your doing I would go solid.
I think their is plenty left in your combo just with a cam and valve spring swap. You could get another point of compression out of your heads by having them milled but you will loose valve clearance. A 440 is easier to use a milled head vs a low deck 400. Also use the thinnest head gasket you can. Hard to advise you on a cam without knowing if you are staying with a hydraulic or a solid. Also a cam with lots of lift you may find how big is to big with the clearances.

Our sons run a low buck operation, mom and dad have been somewhat involved through the years and 2 of our Grandchildren have gone through jr street legal.
If I remember correctly when running the fastback Charger it was quite consistent around 11.60 in the quarter with a 383 906 heads. I can get the stats, but the Charger is sitting and they are running a 64 Polara 440 and our Grandson ran a 74 440 Challenger in Jr Street IHRA 1/8th of a mile.
We were a NHRA tack for over 50 years.
If you want a peak, check out SDRA, hope I haven’t done something wrong with my dialogue.

Curiousyellow71 said:

11.80 wasn't to bad for a .484 cam. You can definitely gain from a cam swap. I would go with a solid. You could probably be creative and tweek the valve releifs on the 6 pack pistons to get the proper clearance if you find out it doesn't clear. Regardless of the cam upgrade you need to use clay to check your valve clearance. We've done a .557 mopar solid with the same combo you have and it cleared...however we were running 2.08 intakes and 1.88 exhaust. Their are much better cam designs now...we've been happy working with bullet cams and they have custom ground the last 5 cams for us for really no more then ordering from summit with quick turnarounds. It's my understanding someone from crower is on this FBBO .. We've bought a cam from them recently too.. I would not do mopar performance anymore. Jones and hughes also would be 2 cam companies 2 consider. You could keep with the hydraulic cam but for what your doing I would go solid.
I think their is plenty left in your combo just with a cam and valve spring swap. You could get another point of compression out of your heads by having them milled but you will loose valve clearance. A 440 is easier to use a milled head vs a low deck 400. Also use the thinnest head gasket you can. Hard to advise you on a cam without knowing if you are staying with a hydraulic or a solid. Also a cam with lots of lift you may find how big is to big with the clearances.

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Let's assume that I am going solid. Also, how can I tell if they are 6 pack pistons? Can I measure the valve recesses or is there a better way?
Edit: pistons have L2355 060 on them if that helps identify what they are.

L2355 is a forged replacement of the 440 6 pack piston. They are a common piston that is very heavy an been around a long, long time.

Going with a solid cam you can run a edm solid lifter that has a .020 hole in the middle that will help the cam last.

Cam choices I'd suggest a cam that suits your compression you have.

Go with a cam profile designed for use with mopars .904 lifter with a profile that's builds compression vs. one that bleeds it off. We are running a bullet cams NF57 lobe. It's a UD Harold profile designed for a .904 lifter. I'd look at doing 282 [email protected] .582 lift on both intake and exhaust. When you subtract the .016 valve lash the cam would be about .566 lift. You probably could go a size bigger on the exhaust but I dont know if you would gain much from your description of your heads. You would want to run a narrow LSA like 108 or maybe 106 to build compression since you are running 9.5. If you had more compression I'd widen the Lsa. I would call a company like bullet, Jones, or hughes as they all have good tech guys to help you select a cam. I prefer Bullet because they are very forth coming on the cam specs where Hughes considers all there cam numbers a trade secret.
As for valve clearance you will need to check clearances obviously.

Curiousyellow71 said:

L2355 is a forged replacement of the 440 6 pack piston. They are a common piston that is very heavy an been around a long, long time.
The intake and valve sizes you mentioned are not a combination I am familiar with...you said the heads were flowed do you have any flow numbers?

Going with a solid cam you can run a edm solid lifter that has a .020 hole in the middle that will help the cam last.

Cam choices I'd suggest a cam that suits your compression you have.

Go with a cam profile designed for use with mopars .904 lifter with a profile that's builds compression vs. one that bleeds it off. We are running a bullet cams NF57 lobe. It's a UD Harold profile designed for a .904 lifter. I'd look at doing 282 [email protected] .582 lift on both intake and exhaust. When you subtract the .016 valve releif the cam would be about .566 lift. You probably could go a size bigger on the exhaust but I dont know if you would gain much from your description of your heads. You would want to run a narrow LSA like 108 or maybe 106 to build compression since you are running 9.5. If you had more compression I'd widen the Lsa. I would call a company like bullet, Jones, or hughes as they all have good tech guys to help you select a cam. I prefer Bullet because they are very forth coming on the cam specs where Hughes considers all there cam numbers a trade secret.
As for valve clearance you will need to check clearances obviously.

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Update on valve sizes. Found the receipts from the build and was able to Google the part numbers for the valves. They are 2.08 intake and 1.74 ex.

Thanks for the good info about the cam! With the updated and correct valve sizes now known, your advice still apply?

Yes...with the 2355 pistons I would prefer to run the valve size the eyebrows were designed for which is 2.08 and 1.74 (stock). You can run a larger 2.14 or 2.19 intake and a 1.81 or 1.88 exhaust but those pistons would need to be flycut to get the proper valve clearances. Your chances of things clearing are much better if you stay with the valves you have.

So you do have the stock size valves for your 906's. That also rules out the head cc's being markedly reduced by larger valves, so I too would guesstimate you are in the 9.5/1 comp range, which isn't bad at all, especially with iron heads. That said.. unless they are a really well ported set of 906's with the stock valve size, you will certainly gain airflow with aftermarket heads. The 75 cc Edelbrocks I mentioned will up your compression noticeably, and also flow in the 280+ cfm range, which isn't too bad. They run about $1,100.

The old bracket motor I had had the same pistons yours does, with a .020" steel shim head gasket, and by memory, the solid cam in it was just over 600" lift. It HAD dinged the factory valve relief notches, but I also know it got binged off an 8,000 rpm chip at least once.

That engine had an old Street Dominator intake, an 850 double pumper, Hooker super comp headers, that solid cam, and old Isky iron adjustable rockers. It was a 10.60 bracket car for years, (70 Challenger), and I bought the motor for $1,500 still running strong. Simple, dependable combo.

A aftermarket head would have a lot more hp potential but the bigger valves are going to be a poor match for the pistons unless the v. releifs are cut bigger. The problem is the bigger releifs will lower the compression further. The optimal build with new closed chamber heads would include a piston upgrade with 2 valves releifs vs 4.... the piston would be lighter, higher compression and possibly 0 deck w quench . But then it needs to be balanced again and a good set of aftermarket connecting rods are in order to handle the hp of your big hp heads. At a certain point it makes more sense to build a new motor. It's really pretty respectable the way it's set up now. Maybe a 150hp shot for a little more kick along with a cam that's meant for the strip...maybe more stall converter too.
That would be a good ride even with the stock ported heads. Anything you gain in the 60' you double the gains on your e.t. in the quarter.

After some thought and the advice in the thread I'm leaning towards a new solid cam set up. Putting aluminum heads on with the current pistons seems like a waste for now. I have a lot of money to spend on other parts of the car as it needs disk breaks, suspension, fuel system, carb, slicks, and just a lot of general clean up.

I'm going to give Hughes a call and see what they suggest for the cam and rest of the valve train. That will get me back on the track next spring and maybe in a year or two I'll build a new motor as a complete project.

I'm pretty sure the 2355 valve pockets will clear 2.14 valves for most applications.

Target a 0.40" piston to head clearance. You're probably 0.010" below the deck now assuming there was a cut made in the previous build. Maybe they even zeroed it. None the less, with proper gasket selection You can get real close to the 0.040".

From there the sky is the limit. You can probably get anything from 10:1 to 11:1 CR with today's head selection and a little tweaking. Smaller cam, go 10.5:1. Bigger cam, go +11:1.

Heads is where the power is. If you want more power, that's where to spend your $$.

The valve pockets will be 6 or 7 cc

Spoke with Hughes and after going through everything they are suggesting a solid flat tappet cam with 242 intake 256 ex at .050 with a .564 intake and a .576 exhaust, with a 109 LSA. PN STL 4246BS3-9.

For the rocker arms they are suggesting 1.6’s PN 15203

For the head gasket they are suggesting a new style they just got in that they don’t have a PN for but it’s a multi-layer steel at 29 thousands thick to bump up the compression a little. With the shorter duration on the cam the piston to valve clearance should work.

For the cam, lifters, retainers, rocker arms, hold downs, pushrods, and head gaskets I am looking at just under $1700.

Any thoughts on this? Everything looks and sounds good to me. Anything else I should consider like new timing set?

That would run hard...its past .6 lift with the 1.6s and with that much lift...backing off the intake duration is a good idea. If you get into valve clearance issues putting it together I would think they would exchange them for 1.5s..(I would ask them about exchanging them as a back up plan). Looking at the specs on hughes site it is installed at 105 which is what I had in mind. Looks overall a good cam to me. I dont know what rockers they are recommending?
I would run edm lifters if it were mine.
Visibly inspect the chain if you can...if it's a cloyes it's probably ok. But I would consider a new chain and reuse the sprockets.... If you know what brand you have and can match it up.

nothingelsematters said:

Any thoughts on this? Everything looks and sounds good to me. Anything else I should consider like new timing set

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Your already in the engine, why take a chance. I would change it. It's insurance.

I think I'd probably keep 1.5s and run more intake duration if I were doing it.

Those rockers are pretty expensive..but I haven't run them to comment any on if they are worth it or not. Harlan sharps and crane are all we have run.

I think 2355s have a 2.2ish fly cut??.. meaning a 2.14 fits tight....but I could be wrong. It's been 15 years since I have built a engine with those pistons..so my memory is a little fuzzy. LOL

Could someone give me the quick and dirty on 1.5’s vs 1.6’s? This will be my first solid cam so much to learn. I like being able to order everything from one company, gives me that warm fuzzy feeling inside. So even if the rockers are a little more expensive from Hughes I am willing to pay that as long as they are a good product.

Edit: Lifters are 5012EDM