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Solid Rollers or Flat Tappet for street and strip. Looking for LONGEVITY and low maintenance!

biomedtechguy said:
Once again, a post pointing me toward flat tappet solid lifters.
I hate to miss out on the benefits of a roller cam profile, but my understanding is the larger diameter of the Mopar/AMC lifter allows for a "roller-like" ramp and lobe profile, so there's that....
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you’ll be happier. Properly set up they (the flat tappet) is pretty much maint free. I adjust mine usually no more than twice a summer and it’s usually a waste of time pulling the valve cover. Keep in mind Ray Barton uses tons of flat tappets in big HP street motors. My buddy has a 470 cube hemi that made 780 on the dyno. It’s a flat tappet motor and he drove it everywhere. Only downside to his combo was it was a race gas motor. Flat tappets will make power, you need something combo specific though. Off the shelf cams seldom give desired performance in something like what you are building. Also keep in mind if you really wanted to reap all the benefits of a Roller they are not street friendly. The one like I have for my hemi is a compromise on the ramps so it doesn’t kill the valve springs and valve train. If it were a race only motor then I would use a much more aggressive ramp.
 
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biomedtechguy said:
Once again, a post pointing me toward flat tappet solid lifters.
I hate to miss out on the benefits of a roller cam profile, but my understanding is the larger diameter of the Mopar/AMC lifter allows for a "roller-like" ramp and lobe profile, so there's that....
Click to expand...
a flat tappet will be fine , but I would look for a custom grind . Talk to Bullet see what they say . Big cubes will need a reasonable size cam .I run a custom flat tappet ,high 10.20s with 505ci . Daily driver , just did a 1150KLM each way run plus racing when I got there , no dramas . I use Howards EDM lifters . Only thing I had done was use a softer less aggressive ramp/lobe . This may give up a little power but is easy on valvetrain . I normally run lash once a year after first couple of checks . You will get your rpm range happily . Use good springs .
BAM also seem to have a good solid roller lifter .

Tex
 
68 HEMI GTS said:
you’ll be happier. Properly set up they (the flat tappet) is pretty much maint free. I adjust mine usually no more than twice a summer and it’s usually a waste of time pulling the valve cover. Keep in mind Ray Barton uses tons of flat tappets in big HP street motors. My buddy has a 470 cube hemi that made 780 on the dyno. It’s a flat tappet motor and he drove it everywhere. Only downside to his combo was it was a race gas motor. Flat tappets will make power, you need something combo specific though. Off the shelf cams seldom give desired performance in something like what you are building. Also keep in mind if you really wanted to reap all the benefits of a Roller they are not street friendly. The one like I have for my hemi is a compromise on the ramps so it doesn’t kill the valve springs and valve train. If it were a race only motor then I would use a much more aggressive ramp.
Click to expand...
Tex013 said:
a flat tappet will be fine , but I would look for a custom grind . Talk to Bullet see what they say . Big cubes will need a reasonable size cam .I run a custom flat tappet ,high 10.20s with 505ci . Daily driver , just did a 1150KLM each way run plus racing when I got there , no dramas . I use Howards EDM lifters . Only thing I had done was use a softer less aggressive ramp/lobe . This may give up a little power but is easy on valvetrain . I normally run lash once a year after first couple of checks . You will get your rpm range happily . Use good springs .
BAM also seem to have a good solid roller lifter .

Tex
Click to expand...
2 great posts.
I think the hydraulic roller cam in the 421 Pontiac may be "street friendly" since the local builder knew what we wanted.
I shot an email to John at Southeast, so I'll post his reply. I left it as an open question "solid flat or roller, and if roller, is there a low maintenance one?"
Thanks again!
I've learned a lot.
 
biomedtechguy said:
2 great posts.
I think the hydraulic roller cam in the 421 Pontiac may be "street friendly" since the local builder knew what we wanted.
I shot an email to John at Southeast, so I'll post his reply. I left it as an open question "solid flat or roller, and if roller, is there a low maintenance one?"
Thanks again!
I've learned a lot.
Click to expand...

Hyd rollers serve the purpose of being street friendly. Typically the heavier the valve train the worse they are for high rpm. They work good in small blocks and LS motors. They are typically very RPM limited on big block Chrysler’s. 6k is about it in most cases. Most engine builders are not fans of hyd anything when it come to performance.

I will say some guys seem to do pretty good with the HR though. I think a lot of it depends on the cam grinder knowing what he’s doing and having the right lifters. Limiting the plunger travel seems to help. I’ve considered trying one in my 511 just to play around. I’m a little sceptical I can get it to out run the FT though.
 
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dvw said:
I see no reason to run a solid roller in a street car. I have 2 street cars, 1 hydraulic roller, 1 solid flat tappet.
Doug
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I’ve put lifter bushings in some blocks that would make you reconsider lol. Factory machining tolerance was rudimentary at best.
 
68 HEMI GTS said:
Hyd rollers serve the purpose of being street friendly.
Click to expand...
:thumbsup: perfect for the 421 Pontiac.
While it's no slouch, the bore to stroke ratio of the 421 makes for faster piston speeds, and the valves are small compared to big block Mopar. It's a nice package we put together for it. The iron heads already had hand porting and roller tip CompCams rocker arms. It's going to get a 1320 thrashing once the new rear axle housing is installed with the adjustable lower lift bar brackets and coilover conversion kit, but the TKO600 has to be installed and the new clutch disc, pressure plate and transmission broken in.
 
My best 2 days with the GTO was the day I found out the timing was WAY too far advanced and that was why it was pinging, not so much the stock 11:1 CR
All that was changed with the forged aluminum pistons, but I couldn't bring myself to drop it below 10:1. No pinging any more.
And
The day I blew up the spider gears in the shitty open 8.2 stock rear end.
My wife's goal is faster than 12.8 in the 1320, which was my dad's winning time at LaPlace in his GTO. The engine should make that happen once the Rochesters are modded for the build level of the 421.
 
68 HEMI GTS said:
Hyd rollers serve the purpose of being street friendly. Typically the heavier the valve train the worse they are for high rpm. They work good in small blocks and LS motors. They are typically very RPM limited on big block Chrysler’s. 6k is about it in most cases. Most engine builders are not fans of hyd anything when it come to performance.

I will say some guys seem to do pretty good with the HR though. I think a lot of it depends on the cam grinder knowing what he’s doing and having the right lifters. Limiting the plunger travel seems to help. I’ve considered trying one in my 511 just to play around. I’m a little sceptical I can get it to out run the FT though.
Click to expand...

got a mate running hyd roller in his World 540 (409 chev based ) , been 10 teens , mostly 20s . Will see how it pans out over time . Definitely seems almost luck of the draw for correct happy lifters .

Tex
 
biomedtechguy said:
I shot an email to John at Southeast, so I'll post his reply. I left it as an open question "solid flat or roller, and if roller, is there a low maintenance one?"
Click to expand...
Reply
I use a special race solid lifter that provides added oiling to the lobes. Costs a little more but longevity is better than standard lifter.
Sounds good to me. Trust is the foundation the best relationships are built upon.
The depth of MOPAR specific racing experience this shop has, and there are 2 shops, one with VAST cylinder head capabilities, is a big deal.
Man...this setup is going to ROCK!
It may take some time for me to get a handle on what happens when I plant the pedal.
 
biomedtechguy said:
Reply
I use a special race solid lifter that provides added oiling to the lobes. Costs a little more but longevity is better than standard lifter.
Sounds good to me. Trust is the foundation the best relationships are built upon.
The depth of MOPAR specific racing experience this shop has, and there are 2 shops, one with VAST cylinder head capabilities, is a big deal.
Man...this setup is going to ROCK!
It may take some time for me to get a handle on what happens when I plant the pedal.
Click to expand...

being a stick car you should be able to recycle a few drive line parts with that combo.. lol
 
68 HEMI GTS said:
being a stick car you should be able to recycle a few drive line parts with that combo.. lol
Click to expand...
Chrome moly driveshaft (definitely) and possibly upgraded yoke for Dana 60 as well as transmission slip yoke.
HitMaster will soften the hit.
Clutch disc will likely have to be upgraded, because it's going to have to handle a second or 2 of slipping w/HitMaster launch control.
From user reviews, it's going to be one of the high points in my life experience...lol.
 
What did you decide for an intake? Assuming modman with the max wedge ports?
 
68 HEMI GTS said:
What did you decide for an intake? Assuming modman with the max wedge ports?
Click to expand...
Yes. I emailed Bruce at F&B and he confirmed what I thought. ModMan intake base w/3x2bbl carb top plate. I'll let the builder get the jetting, power valve, etc straight once the build is ready for the dyno. Promax parts makes that job easier for sure.
If I ever want to go 3x2 EFI, Bruce takes the base which already has injector bosses cast in, drills them and puts his top plate and throttle bodies on. Even if the Holley carbs do a great job, the F&B can flow up to 2,400 CFM, so that will leave me room for improvement, should I ever want for more...
 
I've always ran hyd but on my current build after 2 failed sets I switched to a solid lift cam, 16,000 miles and no troubles. I check them every year and never find much if any play plus the design of these lifters make them quiet as well.
 
747mopar said:
I've always ran hyd but on my current build after 2 failed sets I switched to a solid lift cam, 16,000 miles and no troubles. I check them every year and never find much if any play plus the design of these lifters make them quiet as well.
Click to expand...
Great post. Chalk up another reason for me to go solid flat tappet.
What kind of lifters are they, and what is the lift on your cam?
By the way, the CompCams springs and hydraulic lifters that replaced the proven to be weak springs and shot lifters I had in the 452 heads on my 440 have been FLAWLESS in their operation.
My 440 6bbl DEMANDS that it be unleashed to spin up to 6,200 and I have my shift light set at 5,800 and rev limiter set to 6,200 based on what my ENGINE wants, and I have to once again say that the "mystery" purple stripe cam MUST be the 292°/.509 hydraulic. That is the perfect explanation for the performance I get and so clearly feel.
I promise I'll post the results of the chassis dyno runs whenever I can get over there to do that, but I swear my butt dyno is right on.
Those CompCams springs and hydraulic lifters turned my 440 6bbl loose, and instead of the "fire breathing dragon" hiccuping right when it was about to torch the village, after the CompCams parts it's like:
 
68 HEMI GTS said:
If you want low maint a solid flat tappet is best. Use either a nitrided cam with EDM lifters or, The other option is a tool steel lifter using a non nitrided cam. PRH would be the cam expert on the board. I got my nitrided solid through him. I love rollers but prefer to use them on a more limited street application as they do require maint on something that sees a lot of idle and low speed driving.

it’s pretty easy to screw up a driver type street car with too many race type parts.

View attachment 879292
Click to expand...

That is what I did for my eng in my 63 street car. I got a custom grind solid flat tappet nitrided cam with EDM lifters from Dwayne Porter and I love it. Its in my mild 493 that I put in my car in June 2011. So its ben going for 8 years now with much street driving and racing it about twice a year. I broke in the cam on the outer springs and then put the inner back in. Its about 145 on the seat and around 350 open spring pressure. Cam is .585 & .592 lift and 264 & 270 at .050 with a 110 LSA. I use Valvoline VR1 racing oil and its still running 10.70's and 80's after 8 years and still driving great. Good luck whatever you decide. Ron
 
383man said:
I use Valvoline VR1 racing oil
Click to expand...
Valvoline VR1:thumbsup:
Same thing I use in my 440.
Conventional Valvoline in the 421 Pontiac, now that it's got hydraulic roller lifters and has been broken in. I'll probably move to synthetic oil in the 421 next oil change.
WIX filters whenever and wherever possible. (Or NAPA Gold, same thing)
 
Howards hydraulic roller here. Quiet, 7,000 street miles, lots of dragstrip passes and zero issues.

Set it and forget it!
 
Dodge 330 said:
Howards hydraulic roller here. Quiet, 7,000 street miles, lots of dragstrip passes and zero issues.

Set it and forget it!
Click to expand...
What are the specs for that cam and what kind of rpm are you shifting/trapping ?. I was starting to think i was the only person with a hyd. roller ,lol.
 
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