Thinking about raising the front a little
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GetX'd
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You can also raise the torsion bars to gain what you’re looking for. I always like a little bit of lift in the front of my GTX
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I'm with GetX'd on this.....even if you want to go up and inch over stock, I'd crank up the bars instead of shimming the K.
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Shimming the K frame or cranking up the bars?
oldbee
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The bars, like you said. Might(?) affect alignment?
GetX'd
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It can affect the toe in but that can be adjusted too if impacted.
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If you shim the K frame, you should also shim the upper control arms down too so that the geometry stays somewhat the same......thing is for what little you are looking for, it's easier to crank up the bars a bit and that doesn't mess with the geometry enough to worry about.
Ceedawg
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This was done on The 68 Hemi Darts and Barracudas to gain clearance under the hood for the crossram, some even used 1”.
t-bars and socket will flex that much, no problem. I’m thinking of doing this on my 66 Belvedere to fit the Hogan X ram intake under the hood
t-bars and socket will flex that much, no problem. I’m thinking of doing this on my 66 Belvedere to fit the Hogan X ram intake under the hood
tommytunes
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Crank up the torsion bars. Simple easy to do, measure each side to have same road height on each side.
Done this many times with most of my Mopars.
Done this many times with most of my Mopars.
AJ/FormS
Well-Known Member
Anytime you alter the ride height , except for tire height, this will automatically change the camber; and a camber change will change the toe.
So when you get an alignment, at the straight ahead specs, at the new ride height, everything looks ok.
But what happens when the tires move up and down, or the direction of travel is changed, or one wheel moves up, while the other simultaneously moves down?
Anytime the tire moves in any direction from straight ahead, the caster,camber, and toe are doing a little dance. The caster remains the most stable in straight-ahead driving, but when cornering or braking, the weight-transfer is moving it around some.
Camber only stays at the aligned number, when in the straight ahead and the tire is not moving up and down.
And when the camber changes so does the toe.
The factory alignment specs for your car have been carefully worked out, including the ride height, such that the critical toe-in will remain close enough to not cause problems for the tires or the driver.
You can prove all this by doing an analysis of the toe-pattern on the alignment rack.
Generally,
minimum toe change will be had by setting the ride height to where an imaginary line thru the center of the LBJ, and the center of the LCA pivot pin, is parallel to the flat level alignment rack.This sets the maximum outboard swing of the arm. From here, as the wheel moves up or down, in the normal range of motion of perhaps 2 to 3 inches, the LBJ is remaining at a relatively fixed position in plan-view, from above.
But check out that suspension design.
Firstly; the distance between the BJs is smaller than the distance between the upper and lower pivot points.
Secondly; the UCA is shorter than the LCA, so it swings in and out pretty good, and as it does, it changes the camber, which changes the toe. It's just that simple. So, if you set your right higher say, then the LCA will have pulled the LBJ in towards the centerline of the car, in plan view. If you set the alignment like that, then whenever the front end goes down, or the wheel goes up, then the LCA will kick the LBJ outboard. Simultaneously, as the UPJ rises it will be carry the center of the UBJ AWAY from the centerline of the car, and at a faster rate than the lower is changing. This by design, tries to keep the track change minimal, so the tires don't scrub their treads off. But at the raised height, the LBJ is traveling in the wrong direction! So the dance is messed up.
In the correct position you may get 2 to maybe,possibly, hopefully as much as 3 inches of total wheel travel, in which the toe is relatively stable.
To the driver, a wandering toe-in is interpreted as a wandering steering, but since the alignment shows perfect alignment, the driver will blame it on either the alignment guy,or the steering box.
When you change the ride height , and if or rather when, this introduces bump-steer, this is not easy to fix, and you may not find a tech willing to tackle the job, because, it involves heating and bending the steering arms. Not to mention it might take all day.
Like I said, there is a 2 to 3 inch window of minimum toe change. You need to be close to in the center of it, for freedom from wandering.
I humbly suggest you use tire height to set your front ride height, with minimal change to the LCA angle. If you do not, then please don't blame the alignment tech, when your car wanders, or the tires scrub their treads off; this phenomenon does not show up on the spec-sheet, and cannot be compensated for. He is powerless to help you until the LCA home is restored
So when you get an alignment, at the straight ahead specs, at the new ride height, everything looks ok.
But what happens when the tires move up and down, or the direction of travel is changed, or one wheel moves up, while the other simultaneously moves down?
Anytime the tire moves in any direction from straight ahead, the caster,camber, and toe are doing a little dance. The caster remains the most stable in straight-ahead driving, but when cornering or braking, the weight-transfer is moving it around some.
Camber only stays at the aligned number, when in the straight ahead and the tire is not moving up and down.
And when the camber changes so does the toe.
The factory alignment specs for your car have been carefully worked out, including the ride height, such that the critical toe-in will remain close enough to not cause problems for the tires or the driver.
You can prove all this by doing an analysis of the toe-pattern on the alignment rack.
Generally,
minimum toe change will be had by setting the ride height to where an imaginary line thru the center of the LBJ, and the center of the LCA pivot pin, is parallel to the flat level alignment rack.This sets the maximum outboard swing of the arm. From here, as the wheel moves up or down, in the normal range of motion of perhaps 2 to 3 inches, the LBJ is remaining at a relatively fixed position in plan-view, from above.
But check out that suspension design.
Firstly; the distance between the BJs is smaller than the distance between the upper and lower pivot points.
Secondly; the UCA is shorter than the LCA, so it swings in and out pretty good, and as it does, it changes the camber, which changes the toe. It's just that simple. So, if you set your right higher say, then the LCA will have pulled the LBJ in towards the centerline of the car, in plan view. If you set the alignment like that, then whenever the front end goes down, or the wheel goes up, then the LCA will kick the LBJ outboard. Simultaneously, as the UPJ rises it will be carry the center of the UBJ AWAY from the centerline of the car, and at a faster rate than the lower is changing. This by design, tries to keep the track change minimal, so the tires don't scrub their treads off. But at the raised height, the LBJ is traveling in the wrong direction! So the dance is messed up.
In the correct position you may get 2 to maybe,possibly, hopefully as much as 3 inches of total wheel travel, in which the toe is relatively stable.
To the driver, a wandering toe-in is interpreted as a wandering steering, but since the alignment shows perfect alignment, the driver will blame it on either the alignment guy,or the steering box.
When you change the ride height , and if or rather when, this introduces bump-steer, this is not easy to fix, and you may not find a tech willing to tackle the job, because, it involves heating and bending the steering arms. Not to mention it might take all day.
Like I said, there is a 2 to 3 inch window of minimum toe change. You need to be close to in the center of it, for freedom from wandering.
I humbly suggest you use tire height to set your front ride height, with minimal change to the LCA angle. If you do not, then please don't blame the alignment tech, when your car wanders, or the tires scrub their treads off; this phenomenon does not show up on the spec-sheet, and cannot be compensated for. He is powerless to help you until the LCA home is restored
TN Mopar
Well-Known Member
DanielG
Member
I've got about 3/8" to 1/2" metal plate between the K and the frame just to gain hood clearance. 71 Hemi Charger SE (one of none) with flat hood
.
Ceedawg
Well-Known Member
Well guess what, any up and down movement of the car will change alignment settings so make sure your car ALLWAYS stays level going down the road, NO MOVEMENT. OR set the toe at the level you want the car to ride at. BUT, The spec height Chrysler gives, is the optimum place to be to give the least trouble. IMO I like cars to be standing up a little, aggressive looking.
TN Mopar
Well-Known Member
I am well aware of the fact that changing the height from the torsion bars changes geometry
His comment was to me, very well written and explained the science of the change as related to the ball joints. I wanted to know the science of lowering the torsion bars as it relates to the position of the ball joints upper and lower
Ceedawg
Well-Known Member
To each his own, sorry to have bothered you
Demonic
Well-Known Member
The short answer is, it is the same - the limitations of production parts guarantee there will be a toe change through the travel. In the old Direct Connection Chassis manual, there is a chapter on mitigating this by first graphing the tow throughout the suspension rise. This is due to the focus on drag racing. With labor-intensive alterations, you can adjust the suspension for very little toe change. Aftermarket A arms and slight alterations to the strut rods make it slightly easier.
Dave Eamon
Member
The factory would not have shimmed the K, so why would you? Adjust the torsion bars only, to achieve the same result and stay out of massive amounts of trouble.
Ceedawg
Well-Known Member
But they did, in a round about way
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