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Think Laysons make just the lenses
What reproduction parts are still sorely needed?
- Thread starter Montclaire
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They do but they are a cast resin and melt in the sun not injected acrylic like B E & A. My friend had thier side markers brand new laying on a table at Carlisle and the lens almost melted and fell into the housing sitting there in 98 degree sun...
Brett,
We have kicked around doing both of the overflow bottles used on the later B-Body applications. In talking to Jimmy Boros, he believes that some of the 71 cars used the 72 style. We never could figure out which cars should have been delivered with the overflow bottle.
Our thoughts on doing the bottle was that we already offer the 73 to 74 E-Body style and have had very good luck with buyers placing them on their 70 to 72 E-Bodies. Buyers have purchased these bottles for their other applications in the hopes of installing a semi-correct factory appearing part. Many owners believe that these cars always had overflow bottles and others want to install one for the sake of preventing the traditional overflow of a too full system.
Granted the 73 to 74 style bottle would be the most needed piece, but how will they sell? That is where this post is good in that these ideals on what is needed vs what will sale is a valid concern. We have seen a small increase in sales of 71 to 74 B-Body reproduction pieces and sales, but it still is a very small percentage of the overall percentage. The 73 to 74 B-Body market is very small. Although it has gotten stronger in the past three to five years, the 71 to 72 market is still nothing as compared to the 68 to 70 market. During the past three to five years, I would say that the 66-67 and 71-72 market is pretty comparable on the items that we offer.
I have always wondered on the 73 to 76 A-Body pieces. I know that there is need for all of it, but just how much can you really sell? We actually have more demand for the 63 to 66 A-Body pieces than the 73 to 76 pieces.
As I alluded to earlier in this post, you can pretty much reproduce anything now. The problem is finding the buyers to justify the investment. No matter the piece, the numbers have to support the decision. And I have learned a long time ago that just because someone will tell you that they will purchase the piece once it becomes available, does not mean that it is going to be huge hit.
We have kicked around doing both of the overflow bottles used on the later B-Body applications. In talking to Jimmy Boros, he believes that some of the 71 cars used the 72 style. We never could figure out which cars should have been delivered with the overflow bottle.
Our thoughts on doing the bottle was that we already offer the 73 to 74 E-Body style and have had very good luck with buyers placing them on their 70 to 72 E-Bodies. Buyers have purchased these bottles for their other applications in the hopes of installing a semi-correct factory appearing part. Many owners believe that these cars always had overflow bottles and others want to install one for the sake of preventing the traditional overflow of a too full system.
Granted the 73 to 74 style bottle would be the most needed piece, but how will they sell? That is where this post is good in that these ideals on what is needed vs what will sale is a valid concern. We have seen a small increase in sales of 71 to 74 B-Body reproduction pieces and sales, but it still is a very small percentage of the overall percentage. The 73 to 74 B-Body market is very small. Although it has gotten stronger in the past three to five years, the 71 to 72 market is still nothing as compared to the 68 to 70 market. During the past three to five years, I would say that the 66-67 and 71-72 market is pretty comparable on the items that we offer.
I have always wondered on the 73 to 76 A-Body pieces. I know that there is need for all of it, but just how much can you really sell? We actually have more demand for the 63 to 66 A-Body pieces than the 73 to 76 pieces.
As I alluded to earlier in this post, you can pretty much reproduce anything now. The problem is finding the buyers to justify the investment. No matter the piece, the numbers have to support the decision. And I have learned a long time ago that just because someone will tell you that they will purchase the piece once it becomes available, does not mean that it is going to be huge hit.
I never ever saw one on a 71 b-body and the market would be VERY low for that year and the parts book while not always correct does not show one either.. 72 would be the market and again most would need the brackets also. Just a thought if you did do the overflow bottles they also had special Radiator caps which are harder to find...They would be a great part as I need one for my 72.. Anyway here is an Nos 73-4 Bottle and 73-4 radiator cap I believe N76 is the code...
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I'm pretty sure the bottle was not available in 71. In 72 the option code is N76. In 71 there is no code. In 73 it was a Federal requirement.
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I've never seen a factory bottle on ANY 71.
Montclaire
Well-Known Member
69bfan said:
I do have to question the decision to reproduce something like 73-74 Charger grilles when originals are everywhere. The headlamp fillers were something that we really needed, and we finally got them. The problem is that without the reproduction metal to fix these cars the values have stayed stagnant. Who’s going to buy a $1000 grille for a $5000 car? We still need a number of parts that would fit all 71-74 B-bodies that are probably a safe bet (roof skins, tail panels, rockers). The quarters on 73/74s are always rotted, and in many cases they are also rotted on the quarter sill because of the trim or SE plug holding water.
Montclaire
Well-Known Member
72 was first year. And maybe not even a full production year. I sold a NOS one about ten years ago.
Montclaire
Well-Known Member
Well that’s not good. And BEA seems to be on their way out.
I had a picture of thier 73-4 Charger tail light lenses and they were melted fast to the table almost flat at a show... I lost that pic on my other PC but I posted it years back on Moparts..
Nacho-RT74
Well-Known Member
I just have to say, while mopar reproduction pars are out of any affordable price range many of us won't be able to pay or justify considering the final value of the car.
As mentioned... $1k grill on a $10-15K car? For God, you allmost can buy a whole driver conditions car as a daily driver ( not a classic of course ) for $1K
About repro parts already available I'm in the market for bumper fillers, the K member bushing/isolation kit, SE grilles but all those parts by themself are on $1.7K rate. That is insane. For a while I got just the headlights fillers ( still travelling along the sea ) because they ARE on an affordable price rate ( not cheap, but affordable ) and I HOPE will be satisfied enough with them ( althought they look to be just decent but not really perfect per threads I read about them ). Will fit them on standard grilles I got NOS in Venezuela althought all 74s in Vzla got SEs. ( I can trade them for a NICE SE grills set if anybody wants )
I would be on tail light housings market too, but if grilles are on $1k rate, I can't imagine tail light housings below $1.8-2k rate ( if including wiring )
Another trap on this profit market was since long time ago you had to get a pair still needing just one side. Fortunatelly this has changed a bit since couple of years or so, but why I had to pay $110 for a pair of parking lenses just needing JUST ONE? Same for tail lenses or anything similar. This never happens on Ford and GM repro products
K member bushings, had to "make" my own ones with local parts and reusing some others from donors in better conditions. I can't afford $300 rate for "just" rubber pieces! My uncle who who works on metalic industry made me the metalic inserts based on one of the ones were still decent.
I could be on Rockers and quarter panels market, but those together would be on $2K rate if were available. Add to this international shipping, which the cheaper by sea still would reach $1.2K. Add to this the internal USA shipping to Florida. So I had to locally make quarter skins based on a NOS quarter I got fortunatelly in $250 ( but add to this $900 on shipping )
Pics:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/1b8mhzcx8/
Both sides were made the same, and rocker panels were patched ( have not pics of that uploaded yet )
I could be on the 73/74 overflow bottle market when times comes ( sure will need it someday ), but $300-350 rate is imposible for it while I could fix mine somehow. Have two cruise control windshield washer reservoirs, one NOS one used but the NOS one doesn't look really nice so I could be using the used one. But add to this another $300 rate for it?
And everythng of this is not because I'm a "cheapskeater" althought I try to save the most money I can ( who doesn't ? ) . I already spent allmost $1.5K on interior plastic pieces ( this is without include a scam I got where I lost allmost $700 ) to be REALLY disappointed on everyone of them. Got in fact two sets of seatbacks ( add $250 more ) when the NICE ONES floated on. I know what to pay and when, but most of these is way away from any logical reason. Well, in fact I didn't got satisfied with Legendary seat covers either because the don't fit really good ( the local made ones just right before get the Legendary fit WAY better ) And I have my doubts about the seat foams I got ( soon to change when I reassembly my car )
And all this thoughts I bet they are not just mine, but every Mopar owner wishing to get his Mopar the best as posible, but IS NOT posible most of the times. So just some specific Mopar Owners can reach those rates. Once again, better prices, more customers. Of course you can't expect get the profit in a year, even less on those prices
There are more Ford and GM customers? Hell of course, but how many years they have got parts available? So they will be getting the market reduced ( if not already yet ), since less cars of those are being in need of restoration ( because are already restored or rest less to restore ). And even more... MORE MANUFACTURERS TOO! At different price rates depending on quality or licensed or not! So yes more car but also more offers or options from the market too. Mopar owners are fairly new on this area getting available parts and just couple or just ONE manufacturer, so even small, all the market is to the only or couple of manufacturers. So is still proportional.
OH! And I dream also with RCD shock, Tuff Stuff 100 amps alternator and some stuff more. But its not posible.
One example I allways post is the reflective rallye stripes. When they were released by PG, the initial price was $400, but after couple of years they were reduced to $300. So were was going all the "Profit" if they can/could be sold in $300 as regular price ( not on any SALE ). Which I still didn't get BTW because they are still INCORRECT ( missed one black layer on them making them darker. I let them know and it seems didn't care ). And what about if I need a section after get a set? Do still I need to get another full set?
I think already mentioned part of everything this on a thread we discussed something similar at DC.com and I think you were posting there Richard, so you know my thoughts on this.
As mentioned... $1k grill on a $10-15K car? For God, you allmost can buy a whole driver conditions car as a daily driver ( not a classic of course ) for $1K
About repro parts already available I'm in the market for bumper fillers, the K member bushing/isolation kit, SE grilles but all those parts by themself are on $1.7K rate. That is insane. For a while I got just the headlights fillers ( still travelling along the sea ) because they ARE on an affordable price rate ( not cheap, but affordable ) and I HOPE will be satisfied enough with them ( althought they look to be just decent but not really perfect per threads I read about them ). Will fit them on standard grilles I got NOS in Venezuela althought all 74s in Vzla got SEs. ( I can trade them for a NICE SE grills set if anybody wants )
I would be on tail light housings market too, but if grilles are on $1k rate, I can't imagine tail light housings below $1.8-2k rate ( if including wiring )
Another trap on this profit market was since long time ago you had to get a pair still needing just one side. Fortunatelly this has changed a bit since couple of years or so, but why I had to pay $110 for a pair of parking lenses just needing JUST ONE? Same for tail lenses or anything similar. This never happens on Ford and GM repro products
K member bushings, had to "make" my own ones with local parts and reusing some others from donors in better conditions. I can't afford $300 rate for "just" rubber pieces! My uncle who who works on metalic industry made me the metalic inserts based on one of the ones were still decent.
I could be on Rockers and quarter panels market, but those together would be on $2K rate if were available. Add to this international shipping, which the cheaper by sea still would reach $1.2K. Add to this the internal USA shipping to Florida. So I had to locally make quarter skins based on a NOS quarter I got fortunatelly in $250 ( but add to this $900 on shipping )
Pics:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/1b8mhzcx8/
Both sides were made the same, and rocker panels were patched ( have not pics of that uploaded yet )
I could be on the 73/74 overflow bottle market when times comes ( sure will need it someday ), but $300-350 rate is imposible for it while I could fix mine somehow. Have two cruise control windshield washer reservoirs, one NOS one used but the NOS one doesn't look really nice so I could be using the used one. But add to this another $300 rate for it?
And everythng of this is not because I'm a "cheapskeater" althought I try to save the most money I can ( who doesn't ? ) . I already spent allmost $1.5K on interior plastic pieces ( this is without include a scam I got where I lost allmost $700 ) to be REALLY disappointed on everyone of them. Got in fact two sets of seatbacks ( add $250 more ) when the NICE ONES floated on. I know what to pay and when, but most of these is way away from any logical reason. Well, in fact I didn't got satisfied with Legendary seat covers either because the don't fit really good ( the local made ones just right before get the Legendary fit WAY better ) And I have my doubts about the seat foams I got ( soon to change when I reassembly my car )
And all this thoughts I bet they are not just mine, but every Mopar owner wishing to get his Mopar the best as posible, but IS NOT posible most of the times. So just some specific Mopar Owners can reach those rates. Once again, better prices, more customers. Of course you can't expect get the profit in a year, even less on those prices
There are more Ford and GM customers? Hell of course, but how many years they have got parts available? So they will be getting the market reduced ( if not already yet ), since less cars of those are being in need of restoration ( because are already restored or rest less to restore ). And even more... MORE MANUFACTURERS TOO! At different price rates depending on quality or licensed or not! So yes more car but also more offers or options from the market too. Mopar owners are fairly new on this area getting available parts and just couple or just ONE manufacturer, so even small, all the market is to the only or couple of manufacturers. So is still proportional.
OH! And I dream also with RCD shock, Tuff Stuff 100 amps alternator and some stuff more. But its not posible.
One example I allways post is the reflective rallye stripes. When they were released by PG, the initial price was $400, but after couple of years they were reduced to $300. So were was going all the "Profit" if they can/could be sold in $300 as regular price ( not on any SALE ). Which I still didn't get BTW because they are still INCORRECT ( missed one black layer on them making them darker. I let them know and it seems didn't care ). And what about if I need a section after get a set? Do still I need to get another full set?
I think already mentioned part of everything this on a thread we discussed something similar at DC.com and I think you were posting there Richard, so you know my thoughts on this.
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Nacho-RT74
Well-Known Member
And another parts We had to made ( one of them was still being worked We I took the pic ) because they weren't available, and when they were released, just for 71/72.
( we even stamped w23 on one of them like the original )
( we even stamped w23 on one of them like the original )
Nacho-RT74
Well-Known Member
Rocker panel home made patched. Including the humps to weld the quarter panel to allow the drain areas.
so, they are needed. Not for me, but mostly sure for every car owner getting rust there where not just the quarter panel gets it
Would be nice to know how many Tabco 73/74 quarter skins have been sold. They are somehow affordable and seems to be pretty much decent fitment per testimonials I have read. Not cheap yet thought but searching for the right seller they could be found in $300-350 each quite ago at least, althought latelly I have seen price rising a bit.
Roof skins! 4 years, Plymouth and Dodges use the same and maybe 70-80% of them with vinyl top. How you can say there is not market there? Of course won’t have it if you pretend to sell it on $900!
Same about rocker panels... same for all 4 years Plymouth and Dodge.
and all these B bodies 4 years sums more cars than E bodies and also more than 2 gen Chargers. But the market of these is made for what they know the final price of the car restored and the price the owner will pay to have it, not because is what the real price of the piece cost when manufacturing!
However they make a bulged hood for Charger! Which even wished is not really needed. Why? because they know what’s the price market for used and NOS one and want to take that market with high profit by piece not by quantity!
I have known several Mopar lovers who has changed to restore a Mustang or Camaro or even a Belair or VW beetle due the prices of Mopar restorations. Make it affordable and more will come or will stay.
so, they are needed. Not for me, but mostly sure for every car owner getting rust there where not just the quarter panel gets it
Would be nice to know how many Tabco 73/74 quarter skins have been sold. They are somehow affordable and seems to be pretty much decent fitment per testimonials I have read. Not cheap yet thought but searching for the right seller they could be found in $300-350 each quite ago at least, althought latelly I have seen price rising a bit.
Roof skins! 4 years, Plymouth and Dodges use the same and maybe 70-80% of them with vinyl top. How you can say there is not market there? Of course won’t have it if you pretend to sell it on $900!
Same about rocker panels... same for all 4 years Plymouth and Dodge.
and all these B bodies 4 years sums more cars than E bodies and also more than 2 gen Chargers. But the market of these is made for what they know the final price of the car restored and the price the owner will pay to have it, not because is what the real price of the piece cost when manufacturing!
However they make a bulged hood for Charger! Which even wished is not really needed. Why? because they know what’s the price market for used and NOS one and want to take that market with high profit by piece not by quantity!
I have known several Mopar lovers who has changed to restore a Mustang or Camaro or even a Belair or VW beetle due the prices of Mopar restorations. Make it affordable and more will come or will stay.
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@Montclaire your point on the availability of key items like floor pans and quarter pans is huge in driving the demand for secondary parts like door seals, carpet, seat covers, etc.
I know of owners of 66-67 cars that have been waiting for the past couple years in the hope of reproduction full quarters. Restorations have been on hold in anticipation.
So with the lack of availability of the core body components, expect to see a decline in any new secondary parts for these cars. In the same thought pattern, current reproduction pieces like turn signal lenses, trim pieces, glass, etc. will decline in sales and face the possibility of being discontinued.
If the part is currently available now, it does not mean that it will be available next year at this time. In the same regards, manufactures will continue to develop new smaller sub-assemblies to stay in business which will keep the hobby moving on at a reduced pace and allow the owners of these cars to further enhance their car.
I know of owners of 66-67 cars that have been waiting for the past couple years in the hope of reproduction full quarters. Restorations have been on hold in anticipation.
So with the lack of availability of the core body components, expect to see a decline in any new secondary parts for these cars. In the same thought pattern, current reproduction pieces like turn signal lenses, trim pieces, glass, etc. will decline in sales and face the possibility of being discontinued.
If the part is currently available now, it does not mean that it will be available next year at this time. In the same regards, manufactures will continue to develop new smaller sub-assemblies to stay in business which will keep the hobby moving on at a reduced pace and allow the owners of these cars to further enhance their car.
Montclaire
Well-Known Member
Nacho, the repops of these can be worked to fit 73/74. Of course they are on the discontinued list which makes no sense. If you are buying the tabco skins or even the 71 quarters you almost always need these. They aren’t large pieces why not just keep them in inventory?
Nacho-RT74
Well-Known Member
we can think on this... if tooling already exist of every of the parts being “discontinued” doesn’t make any sense not keeping them in stock no matter if in small amounts. Or small rows once a year or twice. The expensive part ( tooling ) is already made!
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