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New 440 build.

G

greenmachine

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Hi
I’m starting over. Got a 78 440 block. Going 20 over with kB hypereutechnics. Stock crank. 10/10, hyd. Roller from bullet and morell lifters, m1 intake, qft 750. Eddy rpm with PRW rockers. Smith brothers pushrods. Dougs headers. Will post pics from machine shop tomorrow.
 
Is this for sale OR just building new for yourself?? Sounds nice! Scott
 
This is a build for myself. After a member here built me a engine that ate itself within 300 miles. Had to start from scratch. I am scrutinizing every piece.
 
PLEASE DO post PICS as you move ahead! I just picked up a 440 block to build, as well.
Bests to ya in your build! Scott
 
greenmachine said:
This is a build for myself. After a member here built me a engine that ate itself within 300 miles. Had to start from scratch. I am scrutinizing every piece.
Click to expand...


Not trying to rub salt in the wounde,
so much as just emphasizing the importance of Dyno'ing Engines BEFORE they leave the Builder's possession.... or heaven forbid get installed in a Customer's vehicle to "ate itself within 300 miles" ?
It's now 2020.... nobody needs that aggravation nor the finger pointing later anymore ?
We don't let anything leave here until it's Dyno'd in the Customer's presence... to the Customer's satisfaction... NO EXCEPTIONS !

So YOU will be scrutinizing all Machining and Parts for yourself ?
and of course...
YOU will be assembling the Engine yourself as well ?

just say'in.... if you can find somewhere to "test" the engine, break it in and tune it ? BEFORE installing this time I believe it's highly worthwhile ?
there is some personal satisfaction, let be mindful cognizance in being able to install an Engine ONCE and knowing you are doing so with a proven product you don't have to worry about ?
 
And BTW.... IMO....
1.) throw the HR Cam as far in the weeds as you can !
they make diddly for power above a Solid Flat Tappet Cam Vrs the extra expense incurred, and at least with a Solid you ain't gotta worry about Block Lifter Bore wear integrity to seal the HR Lifter...
and if you absolutely must have a "Roller" ? then use a Solid "STREET" Roller Profile... order a tight lash version, and at least they will make some extra power.
and
2.) PUNT the KB's as well.... by the time you access a proper T/Plate style Cylinder Job.... and file the KB Top Ring End Gaps correctly.... you might as well bought a cheap 4032 Alloy Forged Piston. They run just as quiet without the headaches.
 
Challenger340 said:
And BTW.... IMO....
1.) throw the HR Cam as far in the weeds as you can !
they make diddly for power above a Solid Flat Tappet Cam Vrs the extra expense incurred, and at least with a Solid you ain't gotta worry about Block Lifter Bore wear integrity to seal the HR Lifter...
and if you absolutely must have a "Roller" ? then use a Solid "STREET" Roller Profile... order a tight lash version, and at least they will make some extra power.
and
2.) PUNT the KB's as well.... by the time you access a proper T/Plate style Cylinder Job.... and file the KB Top Ring End Gaps correctly.... you might as well bought a cheap 4032 Alloy Forged Piston. They run just as quiet without the headaches.
Click to expand...
Duh-ham I love this post!
 
Cast Hypers and a hydraulic roller? REALLY?

Expensive cam and cheap pistons. You just as well start building your 3rd motor...or better yet...take challenger340's advice.:thumbsup:
 
Last edited:
I’m not an engine builder. Don’t pretend to be. I have a 78 block at the machine shop. I was going to use icon 836-30 pistons but for a street motor my builder steered me towards the hyperutechnics. He explained the forged needed larger tolerances than the kB and would increase possibility of piston slap. I’ve waffles with flat tappet vs roller and honestly have seen enough people having lobes going flat (which means a full tear down because of floating material and piston skirts getting embedded with lobe material)
Also. The first engine was broken in with me present on a test stand. I was unaware about the crappy machine work. I learned the hard way. I have a local very well known cam grinder making me this hyd. Roller cam. I will run this past him. I appreciate the info. I just spent 490.00 on eagle h-beam connecting rods. Thank u for insight.




Challenger340 said:
Not trying to rub salt in the wounde,
so much as just emphasizing the importance of Dyno'ing Engines BEFORE they leave the Builder's possession.... or heaven forbid get installed in a Customer's vehicle to "ate itself within 300 miles" ?
It's now 2020.... nobody needs that aggravation nor the finger pointing later anymore ?
We don't let anything leave here until it's Dyno'd in the Customer's presence... to the Customer's satisfaction... NO EXCEPTIONS !

So YOU will be scrutinizing all Machining and Parts for yourself ?
and of course...
YOU will be assembling the Engine yourself as well ?

just say'in.... if you can find somewhere to "test" the engine, break it in and tune it ? BEFORE installing this time I believe it's highly worthwhile ?
there is some personal satisfaction, let be mindful cognizance in being able to install an Engine ONCE and knowing you are doing so with a proven product you don't have to worry about ?
Click to expand...
 
greenmachine said:
I’m not an engine builder. Don’t pretend to be. I have a 78 block at the machine shop. I was going to use icon 836-30 pistons but for a street motor my builder steered me towards the hyperutechnics. He explained the forged needed larger tolerances than the kB and would increase possibility of piston slap. I’ve waffles with flat tappet vs roller and honestly have seen enough people having lobes going flat (which means a full tear down because of floating material and piston skirts getting embedded with lobe material)
Also. The first engine was broken in with me present on a test stand. I was unaware about the crappy machine work. I learned the hard way. I have a local very well known cam grinder making me this hyd. Roller cam. I will run this past him. I appreciate the info. I just spent 490.00 on eagle h-beam connecting rods. Thank u for insight.
Click to expand...

4032 alloy Forged Pistons only run very marginally larger tolerances than the KB's !
Go ASK your "machinist" the difference between "4032" Alloy and "2618" Alloy Forged Pistons....if/when you get BLANK STARES ?????
you will have your answer regarding the KB's and your "machinist".... let be Piston Slap !

And WHO said anything about running a FLAT Tappet Cam ?
All I said was your HYDRAULIC Roller Cam don't make DIDDLY more power than a Flat Tappet Versus the EXTRA COST !
So... if you are going to SPEND for a Roller.... GO "Roller" but ditch the "Hydraulic" part and run a STREET Mechanical Roller Profile !

BTW.... ask your Cam Grinder what the differences are between Hydraulic Roller Blocks.... and NON-Hydraulic Roller Blocks with BB Mopars ?
He should tell you NO DIFFERENCE in Blocks ?
If he does... then ask about sealing your "Hydraulic" Roller Lifters against the Higher Roller V/Spring Pressures/rates in those short/worn Lifter Bores with an Oil Gallery within .250" to .350" of the bottom ?

I'm out...
bottom line
1.) go buy some REAL Forged Pistons....
and
2.) ditto if you are gonna SPEND on a Roller Cam then get a REAL STREET Roller Cam for the same cost and skip the pink pantied "hydraulic" Roller !
3.) USE and Engine Dyno.... because run in stands can NOT "load" the Engine/Rings etc., meaning .... Flat Tappet Cam Break in ONLY !
I'm not even sure if they are a decent Ring break in tool ? again here = NO Load !
 
Last edited:
I fully understand the difference between hyd. Roller, solid roller, hyd. Flat, solid flat. My first engine had a bullet solid roller tappet. Per my builder the solid roller cams are for someone that enjoys checking lash a lot. I love engines, but I love driving my car more. If the hyd. Roller is a “pink partied” version for safety but slightly less hp than a solid roller then so be it. I’m using top shelf morel lifters for longevity. Is there an issue with the KB hypers I’m not aware of for a 10:1 pump gas friendly street motor. I just wanna a car I can hop in hit the key and enjoy. I’ve been building this car for 8 years and I’m starting to getting burned out. Why can’t I put the engine in, fire it off, break it in at varying rpms. And then go climb some hills at 1/2 throttle to help set the rings? I would think 3700lb. Car counts as loading the engine. Bottom line. The current builder has been doing motors successfully for 45 years. I will ask about the alloy. I will also ask the cam grinder his thoughts on solid vs. hyd. Roller. I dig your directness with your answers. And appreciate what you have to say.


Challenger340 said:
4032 alloy Forged Pistons only run very marginally larger tolerances than the KB's !
Go ASK your "machinist" the difference between "4032" Alloy and "2618" Alloy Forged Pistons....if/when you get BLANK STARES ?????
you will have your answer regarding the KB's and your "machinist".... let be Piston Slap !

And WHO said anything about running a FLAT Tappet Cam ?
All I said was your HYDRAULIC Roller Cam don't make DIDDLY more power than a Flat Tappet Versus the EXTRA COST !
So... if you are going to SPEND for a Roller.... GO "Roller" but ditch the "Hydraulic" part and run a STREET Mechanical Roller Profile !

BTW.... ask your Cam Grinder what the differences are between Hydraulic Roller Blocks.... and NON-Hydraulic Roller Blocks with BB Mopars ?
He should tell you NO DIFFERENCE in Blocks ?
If he does... then ask about sealing your "Hydraulic" Roller Lifters against the Higher Roller V/Spring Pressures/rates in those short/worn Lifter Bores with an Oil Gallery within .250" to .350" of the bottom ?

I'm out...
bottom line
1.) go buy some REAL Forged Pistons....
and
2.) ditto if you are gonna SPEND on a Roller Cam then get a REAL STREET Roller Cam for the same cost and skip the pink pantied "hydraulic" Roller !
3.) USE and Engine Dyno.... because run in stands can NOT "load" the Engine/Rings etc., meaning .... Flat Tappet Cam Break in ONLY !
I'm not even sure if they are a decent Ring break in tool ? again here = NO Load !
Click to expand...
 
greenmachine said:
I fully understand the difference between hyd. Roller, solid roller, hyd. Flat, solid flat. My first engine had a bullet solid roller tappet. Per my builder the solid roller cams are for someone that enjoys checking lash a lot. I love engines, but I love driving my car more. If the hyd. Roller is a “pink partied” version for safety but slightly less hp than a solid roller then so be it. I’m using top shelf morel lifters for longevity. Is there an issue with the KB hypers I’m not aware of for a 10:1 pump gas friendly street motor. I just wanna a car I can hop in hit the key and enjoy. I’ve been building this car for 8 years and I’m starting to getting burned out. Why can’t I put the engine in, fire it off, break it in at varying rpms. And then go climb some hills at 1/2 throttle to help set the rings? I would think 3700lb. Car counts as loading the engine. Bottom line. The current builder has been doing motors successfully for 45 years. I will ask about the alloy. I will also ask the cam grinder his thoughts on solid vs. hyd. Roller. I dig your directness with your answers. And appreciate what you have to say.
Click to expand...
. Also. Pistons are bought and paid for and no return possible at this point. So im SOL and gonna run em.
 
what heads green
any quench
what are you doing with your build
 
You can run Hypereutectic. I don't know that I would worry. But, I am sorry your builder talked you into that. At this point, I am more concerned about other advice he is giving you. You had a such bad experience before and I don't want you to give up.

This is not 1980 anymore when forged pistons grew 5 thousands or more and required lots of piston clearance. Their is a tremendous amount of engineering that goes into pistons now days...Hypeutectics are simply cast pistons. Good Forged are superior in every way. Yes hypers will get the job done, but in a performance applications...with high hp head, I can't believe he recommended that.

Hoping the HR cam goes well for you.
 
kb's work fine
what part number
push rods are long so use heavy wall 3/8 and oil rocker adjusters through the pushrod
You can make any lifter system work edm solids work
 
Challenger340 said:
4032 alloy Forged Pistons only run very marginally larger tolerances than the KB's !
Go ASK your "machinist" the difference between "4032" Alloy and "2618" Alloy Forged Pistons....if/when you get BLANK STARES ?????
you will have your answer regarding the KB's and your "machinist".... let be Piston Slap !

And WHO said anything about running a FLAT Tappet Cam ?
All I said was your HYDRAULIC Roller Cam don't make DIDDLY more power than a Flat Tappet Versus the EXTRA COST !
So... if you are going to SPEND for a Roller.... GO "Roller" but ditch the "Hydraulic" part and run a STREET Mechanical Roller Profile !

BTW.... ask your Cam Grinder what the differences are between Hydraulic Roller Blocks.... and NON-Hydraulic Roller Blocks with BB Mopars ?
He should tell you NO DIFFERENCE in Blocks ?
If he does... then ask about sealing your "Hydraulic" Roller Lifters against the Higher Roller V/Spring Pressures/rates in those short/worn Lifter Bores with an Oil Gallery within .250" to .350" of the bottom ?

I'm out...
bottom line
1.) go buy some REAL Forged Pistons....
and
2.) ditto if you are gonna SPEND on a Roller Cam then get a REAL STREET Roller Cam for the same cost and skip the pink pantied "hydraulic" Roller !
3.) USE and Engine Dyno.... because run in stands can NOT "load" the Engine/Rings etc., meaning .... Flat Tappet Cam Break in ONLY !
I'm not even sure if they are a decent Ring break in tool ? again here = NO Load !
Click to expand...
 
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