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New 440 street engine build recipe needed

Randall Miller

Well-Known Member
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7:56 AM
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Aug 27, 2019
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Location
Findlay, Ohio
Hi Folks,
I have a driver quality #'s matching 72 GTX RR 440 spd. I want to drive the car so I'm pulling the #'s matching stuff.

It has a factory Dana 60 and I have a new Passon 5 speed and a 1970 440 w a .30 over w forged pistons and 6 pack rods.

My goal is a roller cammed aluminum headed, pump gas street engine that I don't have to spin high to enjoy.

Would anyone care to share the right stuff to help me get there? Thanks in advance. BTW...I'd buy the right assembled engine if someone had such a beast they didn't need.

Thank you,
Rudy
 
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Thanks...yeah, I'm 50 and know who I am. I am not an engine builder nor smart enough to pick my own components. A man has to know his limitations. My engine builds in my life were forgettable. My builder is good but not a Mopar guy.

I figure the low rpm, driver and pump gas should be an indicator that the HP will be limited and power brakes will be used. I've got more budget than I think this can cost for a driver 440.

I would really appreciate hearing from someone with similar wants that has an engine that works efficiently.
Thanks again,
Rudy
 
For starters...do a stroker...If your builder is not a mopar guy you need to get the easiest drop in stroker crank you can buy. That means bbc 2.2 rod journals 4.25 stroke max. He will still have to grind some but not a lot. 4.15 stroke with 2.2 pin would easier to fit yet. Molnar technologies makes both cranks.
Try for about 10:1 if you end up a little more/less w proper cam don't worry about it.

Heads TF240s or edelbrocks.

I have a `72 satellite....
Love the 72 GTX!
 
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I would say it depends on what the OP is starting with - he mentioned a 78 440 but did not elaborate if he has a complete engine, bare block, etc... if you have a complete short block then I would just keep it a factory stroke engine - I went through the same dilema with the engine for my Polara - I had a virgin 1968 440 and thought about a stroker - but decided just to reuse the rotating assembly to keep costs to a minimum. I got a set of cnc prepped Trick flow heads, and am running some lower compression forged pistons - All backed by a 4-speed.

I would say a decently built 440 would be a very fun engine on the street without worrying about damaging the #matching block. Even a basic 10:1 compression 440 with box stock edelbrock heads and a decent intake/carb/headers will easily pass 500hp
 
Thank you gentelemen. More clarity from me. The original engine will go into storage and my new engine is a clean virgin 1970 .030 over w forged pistons a good crank and the 6 pack rods. The heads are 3614476 which are DC IV heads 2.08 1.7 . Seems not many people like them. The cam was a General Kinetics mushroom cam. Folks on here said .6 lift and probably made good power.

Maybe it should just be reassembled?
It had been sitting for years and was bought without much info being known.
I'm open to a stroker but really thought that was a high revving engine. I need to listen and not tell. I don't need to melt tires and don't want to worry about it coming apart and get 5 mpg. I will commute this to work 30 miles round trip and literally get groceries with it. I'm not a car show guy and I drive what I own. Thanks for the help. I appreciate all the advice. Rudy
 
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Either way I would get those HEAVY 6-pack rods out and rebalance the rotating assembly. A quicker revving engine is much more fun!
I used a Ohio Crankshaft 4.15 stroker kit to my 440, Edelbrock RPM heads (although today I would have used the Trick Flow 240s), Hughes cam and entire valve train (their recommendation), my old six pack set up (a single 4 Bbl would be easier, or FI), Doug's 2" headers, Milodon pan with HV pump and made 450 horse power to the tires. It can turn 11.50s in the quarter and I MAINLY street drive the car (my avatar). I can get around 10 MPG using the GV overdrive with my 4.30 gears.
I will caution you that I had to rebore and bush the lifter bores to correct the factory machining screw up. It cost me a cam and lifters and complete engine tear down, reassembly.
Mike
 
What kind of rear end gears do you have?
 
Ck lifter bores. Got it. Thanks. Would love to get better mileage and don't need to run 11s but that's very impressive!

3.54 w the Passon 5 speed. It's a trac pak car
 
Power band is opposite of your thinking...A stroker moves the power and torque lower...not higher.
It doesn`t sound like your 70 440 was built to be a daily driver. Sounds like a racing survivor from the late 70s early 80s with those old heads and mushroom. The old 6 pack rods are really heavy...as in weight not strength. The part of the rod that usually fails is really no heavier then a ly standard 440 rod.

The charger in my avatar is a 510 4.25 stroke. We built it in '94. Originally the way it was put together in got in the low 20s for mpg. My best was 23 mpg with 3.23 and 275/60 15s. It averaged 17 mpg on a 340 mile trip to the drag strip...including 7 trips down the drag strip where I lost in the finals. We checked the mpg often because we didnt believe it. The big engine just didnt know it was pulling a car down the road. That combo IF it had a passon 5speed and 3.54s it wouldve ran mid 12s all day in street trim. But that was a long time ago and we have sacrificed most of the fuel economy now in pursuit of hp with more cam.

.600 lift mushroom cam likely isn't going to fit your goals at all. The stroker kits are very affordable now. For those that just want to stay with a 3.75 stroke....IMO...they are missing out. But building with a budget stock stuff is fun too, and if you want to build a good running 440 you may have a good start. Not sure what you have now...6 pack 2355s pistons or domes? But if you have the funds I would do 500+ cubes and not look back.
 
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With a stroker and the proper cam/heads you can have an engine that makes 550+ ft/lbs of torque @ 3200 rpm... If your budget is as you say & you want an ear to ear grin every time you go for a drive then build a stroker..

Mushroom tappet cams are interesting & cool old technology but not something you want in a street engine for anyone who isn't a hardcore racer in disguise...

As previously mentioned those Sixpack rods are heavy, that leads to an engine that revs slowly & while heavy rods are in theory strong in reality the extra weight multiples the forces trying to tear the engine apart...

Personally I'd probably find that engine a new home with someone looking for a vintage style race engine & grab another block...
All you would use is the bare block anyway & it would be a waste to tear that engine apart...

For your engine I would use a 4.25 stroke withe 2.2 rod journals, a 7.1 length rod... 17cc dish pistons will give a 10.2 C/R with 84cc chamber cylinder heads which is enough for good power but you'll be able to buy fuel anywhere...

Heads, your asking for a street engine & don't need the biggest HP so I'd stay with the Edelbrock 84cc heads...

Cam? A flat tappet these days with the number of failures is a poor choice... If you lose a cam you potentially lose the whole build... So that means roller cam & for this build I'd be looking at the Lunati 20230713K...

There are lots of small parts left but that gives you a great foundation for a fun street engine....

Oh, I'll add this from 440 Source...
Screen Shot 2020-03-03 at 7.18.07 AM.png
 
Thanks. Sounds right to me. The engine is already apart as I didn't know what I'd bought.

I don't recall what the pistons were other than forged and they're at his shop in good condition.

Don't use the rods. Got it.

No flat or mushroom cam. Got it.

Love that mileage and power. That's exactly what I was hoping to hear.

Is the stroker robust for a bad shift or is it easy to blow up?

I'm asking as I had a 428 big journal Pontiac that spun bearings if you looked at it wrong. I can't handle the aggravation of something always needing attention and work.

Thank you
 
We build pontiacs as well. Something was not right if you were spinning bearings.

Get a rev limiter if you are worried about missing a shift.
With H beam rods and light pistons the strokers are tough. Your pistons now are only good with a stock stroke obviously, you may be able to sell some parts if its not really what you want. A oem 70 or 71 6 pack engine uses those rods and needs them if you want to keep with the stock balancing. I wouldn't be surprised if you had a 6 pack damper as well. Those parts are not junk to someone in need of them.

Solid lifters with edm lifter is a good option. You would be fine.
 
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Thanks. Wouldn't scrap them.
Damn Pontiac was built by national Pontiac shop here in Ohio. Ate 3 cranks. Had rev limiter set at 4800. Stockshift build w DSS pistons, Scorpion rockers, Crower rods. Thing hated me.

Staying focused.... I'll look at this later but stroker wins if it won't be delicate. Wish someone sold crate strokers. Hate and worry that my guy has to learn this w my money.
 
Thanks. Wouldn't scrap them.
Damn Pontiac was built by national Pontiac shop here in Ohio. Ate 3 cranks. Had rev limiter set at 4800. Stockshift build w DSS pistons, Scorpion rockers, Crower rods. Thing hated me.

Staying focused.... I'll look at this later but stroker wins if it won't be delicate. Wish someone sold crate strokers. Hate and worry that my guy has to learn this w my money.

Not meaning to put anyone down but if your Pontiac was limited to 4800 & still kept hurting itself it might not be the engines fault.... I'd talk to another builder....

There are plenty of Mopar shops close by... I'm not from the area but Ohio has plenty of well known Mopar shops...

Try these guys... Shepards Automotive..... I've heard good things about them... http://www.hemisonly.com/about_us.html
 
We build pontiacs as well. Something was not right if you were spinning bearings.

Get a rev limiter if you are worried about missing a shift.
With H beam rods and light pistons the strokers are tough. Your pistons now are only good with a stock stroke obviously, you may be able to sell some parts if its not really what you want. A oem 70 or 71 6 pack engine uses those rods and needs them if you want to keep with the stock balancing. I wouldn't be surprised if you had a 6 pack damper as well. Those parts are not junk to someone in need of them.

Solid lifters with edm lifter is a good option. You would be fine.

I agree, not looking at a really big cam so lower spring pressures, EDM lifters & you'd probably be fine... On the other hand if you have the budget a roller is virtually guaranteed trouble free... It's what all modern engines have gone too, the technology is proven...
 
We Machined/Built/Dyno Tested a couple of 440 Combo's .... posted the results over on DC.com
You know... pump Gas 500 to 550 hp 440 Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam Combo's, but just using Flat tappet Hydraulic Cams because we don't see the "benefit" in Hydraulic Roller Cams other than holding the garbage can lid open versus the COST... which a guy might as well just use a Street Roller instead ?

Might be worth a read over here on the 440 Combo's we built/tested?

With a good core ? all can be done under $10K Machined/Built/Dyno'd
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,106687.0.html
 
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We Machined/Built/Dyno Tested a couple of 440 Combo's .... posted the results over on DC.com
You know... pump Gas 500 to 550 hp 440 Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam Combo's, but just using Flat tappet Hydraulic Cams because we don't see the "benefit" in Hydraulic Roller Cams other than holding the garbage can lid open versus the COST... which a guy might as well just use a Street Roller instead ?

Might be worth a read over here on the 440 Combo's we built/tested?

With a good core ? all can be done under $10K Machined/Built/Dyno'd
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,106687.0.html
You really softened up your delivery on this topic. You must be in a good mood today.
 
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