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New 440 build.

After further research I’m gonna have to say your assessment on Hyd. Rollers is horse ****. Per a cam grinder that has been custom making cams and building his own engines for Probly longer than you’ve been turning wrenches. “The benefits of a solid roller over a hyd. Roller are negligible if the grind is correct. Plus checking lash on a solid is more frequent than a hyd. Roller. For a street motor a hyd. Roller makes perfect sense. Plus good bushed lifters for a solid roller are 1000.00 vs 500 for nice hyd. Roller lifters.”
 
Exactly just do not go nuts on the springs
SlantSix64 runs one of his hr regrinds-works fine
me i'd use a Solid Flat tappet with edm
There is only one us mfg of retroit Hr lifters so shop round
what does your build look like now, quench, compression etc
I'll look those pistons tonight
I helped design the KB quench dome pistons
sales have to be down hat with all the new closed chember heads
but you can run them with 5 - 8 lbs boost or a shot
jut no detonation
and detonation will kill forged pistons too
 
wyrmrider said:
Exactly just do not go nuts on the springs
SlantSix64 runs one of his hr regrinds-works fine
me i'd use a Solid Flat tappet with edm
There is only one us mfg of retroit Hr lifters so shop round
what does your build look like now, quench, compression etc
I'll look those pistons tonight
I helped design the KB quench dome pistons
sales have to be down hat with all the new closed chember heads
but you can run them with 5 - 8 lbs boost or a shot
jut no detonation
and detonation will kill forged pistons too
Click to expand...
78 440, cleaned up with 20 over, steel original crank 10/10, eagle 4340 steel rods, kB-hypereutechnics, arp studs, windage tray, milidon pan, 3/8 pick up, standard volume/pressure pump, eddy rpm heads, 84cc, smith brothers 3/8 pushrods, PRW rockers, b3 kit, m1 intake, qft 750, four seconds flat custom curved distributor, dougs d452 headers, hyd. Roller cam custom grind 2000-6200 rpm, 530/530 lift. 230-242 duration at 50. Cloyes timing chain,
 
greenmachine said:
After further research I’m gonna have to say your assessment on Hyd. Rollers is horse ****. Per a cam grinder that has been custom making cams and building his own engines for Probly longer than you’ve been turning wrenches. “The benefits of a solid roller over a hyd. Roller are negligible if the grind is correct. Plus checking lash on a solid is more frequent than a hyd. Roller. For a street motor a hyd. Roller makes perfect sense. Plus good bushed lifters for a solid roller are 1000.00 vs 500 for nice hyd. Roller lifters.”
Click to expand...
Hah! Ya got that right! Both Challenger340 and I are a couple of inexperienced old clowns. If you are ever at Bullet tell Chris Padgitt I said "Hi".
 
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greenmachine said:
After further research I’m gonna have to say your assessment on Hyd. Rollers is horse ****. Per a cam grinder that has been custom making cams and building his own engines for Probly longer than you’ve been turning wrenches. “The benefits of a solid roller over a hyd. Roller are negligible if the grind is correct. Plus checking lash on a solid is more frequent than a hyd. Roller. For a street motor a hyd. Roller makes perfect sense. Plus good bushed lifters for a solid roller are 1000.00 vs 500 for nice hyd. Roller lifters.”
Click to expand...

You missed the point entirely regarding Hydraulic Rollers Vrs Solid STREET Rollers specific to BB Mopars ?
Not surprising given your limited experience.
and NO....
your Cam Guy has NOT been Grinding Cams longer than I've been turning wrenches.... and I've Dyno'd More Hydraulic Roller BB Mopars than he's probably ground Cams for BB Mopars in his Life

It's the "condition" of the Lifter Bores in the 50 year old Blocks dummy !
Hydraulic Roller "Lifters" rely on a patent Oil Pressure supply to maintain "pump up" against ever higher V/Spring Pressures a Roller Profile requires....
That's why ALL Manufacturers (Ford/GM/and later Mopar) when they went over to Hydraulic Roller Cams Modified the Lifter Bores in the Blocks making them LONGER/DEEPER to provide more "Seal" area integrity around the Lifter and reduce Lifter Bore leakage of Oil Pressure "out and around" the Lifter Vrs being directed into the Lifters to maintain pump up.
GO LOOK at the Lifter Bore LENGTH differences in "Roller" Blocks and NON-Roller Blocks in Fords & GM's etc ?
Will Hyd Rollers run fine in NON-Roller Ford & GM Blocks... YEP they do !.... but more because of the Oil Gallery positioning being far enough removed from the Top & Bottom of the Lifter Bores.
Now...
remember here....
1.) that BB Mopars were NEVER offered with a Hydraulic Roller Cam (Short Lifter Bores)
and
2.) Their HUGE Oil Gallery through the Lifter Bore is very close to the Bottom of the Lifter Bore.... which on most BB Mopars if you "inspect the bottom of the Lifter Bores directly below the Lifter Bore Oil Gallery you may SEE the "problem" with patent Sealing of Hydraulic Roller Lifters in BB Mopars ? That being a 1/2 moon WEAR mark in that area of the Lifter Bore ?
GO INSPECT the sides of your Lifter Bores BELOW the Oil gallery in YOUR 440 BLOCK ?
How much distance is there between the top of the wear pattern from the Lifter going up & down 10 quadrillion times in the Lifter Bore to the Oil Gallery ?

Bottom line here.... I could give a f*ck if you want to repeat all the mistakes guys make trying to build Mopars listening to Chevrolet advice ?
Have at her there nimrod.... go blow up some more of ur junk ?
Too soon ya get old... too late ya get smart huh ?
 
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IQ52 said:
Hah! Ya got that right! Both Challenger340 and I are a couple of inexperienced old clowns. If you are ever at Bullet tell Chris Padgitt I said "Hi".
Click to expand...
If he can dish the comments in the tone he said them in then he can take it. I have a lot of respect for history and guys that do line of work for a living. All I can go on is research and builders I trust through word of mouth and personal experience. If I asked ten builders how to thread in a spark plug I’d get 10 different answers. At some point I gotta man up and just do it. No slam on him and I’m sorry you took it personally. Also, bullet is really proud their roller cams at 563.00.$. Howards, lunati, were way under that.
 
Challenger340 said:
You missed the point entirely regarding Hydraulic Rollers Vrs Solid STREET Rollers specific to BB Mopars ?
Not surprising given your limited experience.
and NO....
your Cam Guy has NOT been Grinding Cams longer than I've been turning wrenches.... and I've Dyno'd More Hydraulic Roller BB Mopars than he's probably ground Cams for BB Mopars in his Life

It's the "condition" of the Lifter Bores in the 50 year old Blocks dummy !
Hydraulic Roller "Lifters" rely on a patent Oil Pressure supply to maintain "pump up" against ever higher V/Spring Pressures a Roller Profile requires....
That's why ALL Manufacturers (Ford/GM/and later Mopar) when they went over to Hydraulic Roller Cams Modified the Lifter Bores in the Blocks making them LONGER/DEEPER to provide more "Seal" area integrity around the Lifter and reduce Lifter Bore leakage of Oil Pressure "out and around" the Lifter Vrs being directed into the Lifters to maintain pump up.
GO LOOK at the Lifter Bore LENGTH differences in "Roller" Blocks and NON-Roller Blocks in Fords & GM's etc ?
Will Hyd Rollers run fine in NON-Roller Ford & GM Blocks... YEP they do !.... but more because of the Oil Gallery positioning being far enough removed from the Top & Bottom of the Lifter Bores.
Now...
remember here....
1.) that BB Mopars were NEVER offered with a Hydraulic Roller Cam (Short Lifter Bores)
and
2.) Their HUGE Oil Gallery through the Lifter Bore is very close to the Bottom of the Lifter Bore.... which on most BB Mopars if you "inspect the bottom of the Lifter Bores directly below the Lifter Bore Oil Gallery you may SEE the "problem" with patent Sealing of Hydraulic Roller Lifters in BB Mopars ? That being a 1/2 moon WEAR mark in that area of the Lifter Bore ?
GO INSPECT the sides of your Lifter Bores BELOW the Oil gallery in YOUR 440 BLOCK ?
How much distance is there between the top of the wear pattern from the Lifter going up & down 10 quadrillion times in the Lifter Bore to the Oil Gallery ?

Bottom line here.... I could give a f*ck if you want to repeat all the mistakes guys make trying to build Mopars listening to Chevrolet advice ?
Have at her there nimrod.... go blow up some more of ur junk ?
Too soon ya get old... too late ya get smart huh ?
Click to expand...
 
Challenger340 said:
You missed the point entirely regarding Hydraulic Rollers Vrs Solid STREET Rollers specific to BB Mopars ?
Not surprising given your limited experience.
and NO....
your Cam Guy has NOT been Grinding Cams longer than I've been turning wrenches.... and I've Dyno'd More Hydraulic Roller BB Mopars than he's probably ground Cams for BB Mopars in his Life

It's the "condition" of the Lifter Bores in the 50 year old Blocks dummy !
Hydraulic Roller "Lifters" rely on a patent Oil Pressure supply to maintain "pump up" against ever higher V/Spring Pressures a Roller Profile requires....
That's why ALL Manufacturers (Ford/GM/and later Mopar) when they went over to Hydraulic Roller Cams Modified the Lifter Bores in the Blocks making them LONGER/DEEPER to provide more "Seal" area integrity around the Lifter and reduce Lifter Bore leakage of Oil Pressure "out and around" the Lifter Vrs being directed into the Lifters to maintain pump up.
GO LOOK at the Lifter Bore LENGTH differences in "Roller" Blocks and NON-Roller Blocks in Fords & GM's etc ?
Will Hyd Rollers run fine in NON-Roller Ford & GM Blocks... YEP they do !.... but more because of the Oil Gallery positioning being far enough removed from the Top & Bottom of the Lifter Bores.
Now...
remember here....
1.) that BB Mopars were NEVER offered with a Hydraulic Roller Cam (Short Lifter Bores)
and
2.) Their HUGE Oil Gallery through the Lifter Bore is very close to the Bottom of the Lifter Bore.... which on most BB Mopars if you "inspect the bottom of the Lifter Bores directly below the Lifter Bore Oil Gallery you may SEE the "problem" with patent Sealing of Hydraulic Roller Lifters in BB Mopars ? That being a 1/2 moon WEAR mark in that area of the Lifter Bore ?
GO INSPECT the sides of your Lifter Bores BELOW the Oil gallery in YOUR 440 BLOCK ?
How much distance is there between the top of the wear pattern from the Lifter going up & down 10 quadrillion times in the Lifter Bore to the Oil Gallery ?

Bottom line here.... I could give a f*ck if you want to repeat all the mistakes guys make trying to build Mopars listening to Chevrolet advice ?
Have at her there nimrod.... go blow up some more of ur junk ?
Too soon ya get old... too late ya get smart huh ?
Click to expand...
 
First off there’s no reason to get personal with name calling. Your first post showed your personality. I have no doubt you have many years experience but you were throwing out comments like you are the only one with knowledge and experience. I have filtered through your response post to gain the nuggets of knowledge and will talk to the cam grinder about the short through hyd. Roller lifters limiting the amount oil in the lifter and lessening the chance of lifter bore damage.
In closing. You need to work on your delivery. I try to be humble and friendly when asking questions. I could go nuclear about you going personal with calling me a nimrod but where does that get me. Just another keyboard warrior. I have no doubt you have a tremendous wealth of automotive knowledge, but if you come across as a dick head when a question gets asked no one is going to learn from that knowledge basis. Obviously you care, cuz here you are after literally saying in your last post “I’m out”.
 
greenmachine said:
If he can dish the comments in the tone he said them in then he can take it. .
Click to expand...

Whoa there fella.... I believe it was you who were FIRST to take a "TONE" when you indicated "my assessment of HR's was horseshit"

In fact here is your exact quote relative to "tone"
"After further research I’m gonna have to say your assessment on Hyd. Rollers is horse ****."

You never even took the time to READ what I was saying about 440 Mopar Lifter Bores now did you ? Let be inspect yours visually ?

Like I said before, it makes no difference to me what you do ?.... NO mileage in this for me !
you DO whatever you feel is right... after all here... you've Machined/Built and Dyno'd upwards of 300-400 Competition and Street HP BB Mopars for a living over the last 40 years .... your money, do as you please !

You think an HR Cam is quieter running and makes more power in a BB Mopar ... than a Tight Lash Solid Roller ?.... GO FOR IT !
You think KB's are better and run quieter than a 4032 Forged Piston ?.... GO FOR IT !

This time I am out.... because I get paid REALLY WELL for my advice at my Shop ? and I don't have to be "NICE" when giving that information out for free to some wannabe on the internet ?
Remember here... i don't "owe" YOU anything.... carry on !
Good luck with your build !
 
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Challenger340 said:
Whoa there fella.... I believe it was you who were FIRST to take a "TONE" when you indicated "my assessment of HR's was horseshit"

In fact here is your exact quote relative to "tone"
"After further research I’m gonna have to say your assessment on Hyd. Rollers is horse ****."

You never even took the time to READ what I was saying about 440 Mopar Lifter Bores now did you ? Let be inspect yours visually ?

Like I said before, it makes no difference to me what you do ?.... NO mileage in this for me !
you DO whatever you feel is right... after all here... you've Machined/Built and Dyno'd upwards of 300-400 Competition and Street HP BB Mopars for a living over the last 40 years .... your money, do as you please !

You think an HR Cam is quieter running and makes more power in a BB Mopar ... than a Tight Lash Solid Roller ?.... GO FOR IT !
You think KB's are better and run quieter than a 4032 Forged Piston ?.... GO FOR IT !

This time I am out.... because I get paid REALLY WELL for my advice at my Shop ? and I don't have to be "NICE" when giving that information out for free to some wannabe on the internet ?
Remember here... i don't "owe" YOU anything.... carry on !
Good luck with your build !
Click to expand...
 
Whooooaaa there little fella.
I put a post up on a Mopar sight looking for help on the third ever 440 Mopar I’ve ever built. You were shitty out of the gates. That’s awesome you have the 100s of builds under your belt. That’s the exact build experience I would love to have. I’m trying to get there. “a wanna be”. That’s cute, bash a car guy that’s trying to learn. “Looking for free info”. First off you responded to the post. The forum is literally designed to bring questions to each other because a collective knowledge basis is always better than individual knowledge. Pretty sure that’s the idea for a forum. If you came on to a forum about firefighting or how to intubate a COPD patient guess what I wouldn’t do. What you just did. Strong work...
I’m building this engine at a shop that’s been around since 1970. I am carefully choosing my parts and asking as many questions as I can. Unlike some I don’t pretend to know everything. The second you think you know all there is to know about something you just became dangerous... have a good one.
 
Challenger340 said:
He still work there ?

Is that who this nimrod is getting this BS from ?
Click to expand...
Chris went from Comp to Crane and on to Bullet. I haven't spoken to him since the latest move but I'm in touch with a racer friend that works with Chris.

Chris has always been a very good listener in my dealings and would offer suggestions if I asked. Chris wasn't pleased with the idea that I was using Erson Cams on Comp Cams dyno during the Mopar Muscle Magazine contests. He contacted my friend and inquired as to how they could get me to switch from Erson to Comp. My listener at Erson left........and I went to Chris.........been using Comp mostly since then.

My dad designed his own cams when he was running in NASCAR and I kinda picked up the habit. I want a cam grinder that will do what I want and not give me what they think I need. Am I that smart? No. But I don't wanna change either. Been doing pretty good with my choices. Except......getting Reed Cams to grind me a cam with different ICL on different cylinders didn't work out as good as I hoped.
 
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