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American Powertrain Hydramax T.O. bearing, shims, collar TOO SMALL! They screwed up...

biomedtechguy

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I'm sure that if the 23 spline vs 18 spline input shaft "collar" is a different diameter that would be something they'd ask, RIGHT?
Jesus Chrysler!
No wonder I have high blood pressure.
Way too many people make mistakes way too often for me to believe!
They sent the 23 spline parts.
UPDATE: THEY SENT DIFFERENT WRONG PARTS AGAIN, to replace the WRONG parts they sent the first time!!
 
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I'm sure that if the 23 spline vs 18 spline input shaft "collar" is a different diameter that would be something they'd ask, RIGHT?
Jesus Chrysler!
No wonder I have high blood pressure.
Way too many people make mistakes way too often for me to believe!
They sent the 23 spline parts.
Everyone makes mistakes.....relax
 
Everyone makes mistakes.....relax
Yeah man, me too, but it's not because of a lackadaisical attitude or a "I guess this or that is right" way of doing things.
American Powertrain is going to send me the correct 18 spline parts, but only after they receive the parts out of the kit that are wrong-the 23 spline parts. Yeah, they are sending a shipping label, and I'm sure it's for regular ground shipping. So that's at least a week more the work is delayed.
Getting "it" right, the first time MATTERS.
 
All morning, up until 3pm central time, no living person was answering ANY extension, replying to emails, returning voicemails...
I finally got an email from Gary in tech support after Greg replied to me and said Gary was going to handle it.
I called, partly because I was driving so emailing back would have meant stopping. I got the receptionist, celebrated a live voice, and bonus! got to speak with Gary in tech support. We worked out exactly what was being returned and what was being shipped. I know they "don't have time to talk" but in the interest of establishing that I had "Passon a855" on the order form (they must have asked) and maybe to prevent future errors with other 855 customers I was mid-sentence when I get the "We're sending you what you need" statement (In other words "I don't want to hear what you're saying") but I insisted that I get the rest of the 6 words out, and that's when I get the "Well having 'a855 Passon 5 speed' on the order form doesn't mean anything to us" statement.
We spent over $6,000 with these people.
That's what I get when I'm finally able to speak to someone to fix their mistake.
Am I expecting too much?
Is this "normal" for customer service?
Is THIS what has happened to people in the United States in general?
If I'm expecting too much, well that's too bad. I expect to be held accountable, to the highest standards, and that's what I deliver to my clients, that's why I quit my former employer, that's why I started my own business, and the service I provide, including how I make up for the rare occasion when I make a mistake is why I'm in my 5th year of business.
I am as fast to compliment, in an over the top manner, when I get good customer service and I complain when I get bad customer service, and to me, that's fair.
 
With the extensive changes you are about to do to your car, get ready for this sort of thing happening a lot in the next few weeks....
I don't expect anything to be right first time anymore, it's sad, but at least I'm already prepared for it.
 
With the extensive changes you are about to do to your car, get ready for this sort of thing happening a lot in the next few weeks....
I don't expect anything to be right first time anymore, it's sad, but at least I'm already prepared for it.
That's what my mechanic said.
I told him (and he knows) that I go out of my way to have everything lined up, but fortunately he likes my car and has taken a personal interest in this being done to the highest level of quality and strength.
 
With the extensive changes you are about to do to your car, get ready for this sort of thing happening a lot in the next few weeks....
I don't expect anything to be right first time anymore, it's sad, but at least I'm already prepared for it.

Unfortunately, this reminded me of another of the saying's my early race buddy's & I came up with, "expect everything you buy is not quite right or needs to be modified". But way too often the folks on the phone seldom know enough about details of the parts, ESPECIALLY Mopar stuff.
 
I'm sure that if the 23 spline vs 18 spline input shaft "collar" is a different diameter that would be something they'd ask, RIGHT?
Jesus Chrysler!
No wonder I have high blood pressure.
Way too many people make mistakes way too often for me to believe!
They sent the 23 spline parts.
Oh Boy . . . Don't get me started on their 18 month "journey" through mess up after mess up . . . That I finally gave up and said enough . . .

They never got it right and never delivered on their promises . . .
 
Oh Boy . . . Don't get me started on their 18 month "journey" through mess up after mess up . . . That I finally gave up and said enough . . .
They never got it right and never delivered on their promises . . .
Well, there have been 3 notable interactions with American Powertrain since the first time we met and made a deal on a fairly large purchase.
It's only fair to recount the initial meeting:
Last day of Cruisin the Coast, the 8 day, 7,000 plus MASSIVE classic cars event that is already in the 22 plus years of being "a thing" and I was going before it was "a thing", just as an observing fan who wanted a classic car, again, although in 78 when I bought my 71 Charger R/T it was a "cool older car"...
Anyway, between my wife's '65 421 cu in Tripower GTO and my Roadrunner, we had quite "the list" and I figured it would take a few years to check off the boxes. When the financial manager (wife) said that we had paid down the bills and that we should look at buying some stuff, and that my Roadrunner really needed front suspension work (I already had that in my friend's garage) I did a Thursday afternoon/evening reconnaissance mission, and I found that with 100 plus vendors at the Coast Coliseum, there were only two that we really needed to do business with to check off practically all of the boxes!
Being as Friday was going to be the LAST day of the booths at the Coliseum, and from personal experience knowing that they always like to make a few MAJOR sales to make the investment in time, space leasing cost, etc, that Friday was going to be the BEST day and the BEST venue for me to get the BEST deals I may ever see. I went to the American Powertrain booth, happened to get the owner as the sales rep, and told him to just cut the absolutely best price on everything so all we had to focus on was speccing everything out, not holding back, and not leaving anything we've been wanting unbought. We discussed all of the options, and got the TKO600 lined out, went ahead and selected a really nice HP street/strip clutch disc and pressure plate, even though the one in her car was only a couple of years old, and the absolute tip top shifter upgrade-the White Lightning shifter. Since I was on the tail end of a week of working (it is WORK) the 2,950 pound pressure plate in my car, in stop and go traffic, and I was keen on the HitMaster launch control system, I figured I'd piggyback the major purchase and get a sweet deal on the Hydramax T.O. bearing kit. I got it for $525!! Summit has them at $629.
FIRST NOTABLE INTERACTION after the initial sale:
When I decided a few months ago that I should get the Hydramax for the GTO, because I expect the HitMaster to be great and I'd like the GTO to be ready to get one if it's as good as I expect, they said that the owner sold me mine under cost, and that they couldn't sell me another for that price, but we were able to come to terms at $595, still a little less than Summit, but no where near the $525 I had paid.
2ND NOTABLE INTERACTION:
I asked about a chromoly steel driveshaft for my Roadrunner, since they have a chunk of the initial purchase total set aside for a DOM steel driveshaft for the GTO, I figured I'd give them a shot on quoting the Roadrunner. American Powertrain had the HIGHEST price out of everyone I checked with for a chromoly driveshaft, just over $800, and that's $100 more than anyone else! I told them Strange Engineering had a MUCH better deal, and I asked them to refund the money set aside for the driveshaft. (appx $400 some odd dollars) I'll buy the driveshaft for the GTO from Strange, and even get a few bucks off their deal, which was the best deal out of everyone!
THIRD NOTABLE INTERACTION:
Was today, and I've already been through the details.
All I can say is I hope I don't have any or too many reasons to call or email American Powertrain once we are ready to install the TKO600 in the GTO. I got some truly great pricing, but I think that if I had to do it again I'd check out Liberty Gears, mainly because they know how to spec high horsepower compatible transmissions, and not grenading the trans is the most important thing to count on!!
 
I don't want you to take this personally, Bio, but having had a retail store and installation business for a lot of years, invariably I found that the customers who beat me down on price were always the biggest PITAs after the sale. Eventually, I set my prices to cover my overhead and a fair profit margin and wouldn't budge from it. When a customer would tell me that they could buy my product cheaper somewhere else, I happily sent them on their way, knowing I wouldn't have to spend an inordinate amount of time dealing with their "problems".
Just a different point of reference...BTW, 3 years ago I bought an American Powertrain hydraulic throw-out bearing set-up and installed it. It works great and they were a pleasure to deal with. Did I get a rock bottom price? Doubt it. Am I happy with the product and service? You betcha...
 
I'm a one man small business, and I don't take that the wrong way, I get it.
My pricing to my clients?
In the lower part of the range, but I also deliver the best possible service because that's all I know how to do.
I'd also rather get the work than be on the couch.
I don't beat anyone down, either they can or they can't, and then I have to decide if I see added value in not paying the lowest price.
I related my experiences that I've had with them to date, and that's all I did.
 
I'll add to that @coloradodave :thumbsup:
There have been jobs I passed on or lost (because of a "blind" bidding process) because a competitor who has his own business like mine, who used to be a "co-worker" with my former employer, bid or offered a lower price than I did.
I fired him one day per the instructions of our boss. Why? Because I caught him red handed faking service reports on medical equipment. He was filling in the blanks for data like electrical safety (resistance and chassis current) with no data to go by.
Does the state of Louisiana care about that? They weren't the client he was writing those service reports for, but they take the lowest bid offered. I had that state account for 3 years in business for myself, and 3 years before that serving them on behalf of my former employer.
They liked me, a lot, personally and professionaly and actually gave me 3 non-contract "spot jobs" like disassembling and removing a full sized, room filling X-Ray machine after I lost the other department-wide contract by being underbid. All I had to do was come in below a certain amount and the spot jobs didn't have to go to bid. There were 3 jobs I did like that, one took one day and I had to pay another company for the employee who was helping me, who I wanted (needed) as that was a X-Ray installation and setup and he had more experience with that than I did. I still cleared a few thousand dollars, and everything came out great. The removal of the X-Ray machine that that unit replaced? I did that by myself, even got a hand from the department manager when the weight/bulk of the old unit was a bit much for me to handle alone.(we still talk about non-business related stuff today).
I went so far as to tell the manager and a "buyer" about the incident when I fired the guy for faking data on service reports, mainly because I was concerned about people I care about, and there was a chance that could put me in place to get the job although I doubted that would happen.
If you're wondering what happened with the facility he was faking service reports for, they gave him the contract to service their facility and treated me like ****. So much for me trying to do the right thing, but I'd do it again, because it's the right thing to do.
American Powertrain has the sales order done so as soon as the parts I sent back are delivered to them, the parts coming to me can be on their way. I hope when the interactions between American Powertrain and I are "done" I'll have more great things to say about them than not.
I hope by then maybe they can say the same about me.
 
I'll add to that @coloradodave :thumbsup:
There have been jobs I passed on or lost (because of a "blind" bidding process) because a competitor who has his own business like mine, who used to be a "co-worker" with my former employer, bid or offered a lower price than I did.
I have been self employed for 25 years and in the beginning I tried to compete with other businesses. I finally decided to let them have the cheap jobs and I took the higher ones. I tell my "deal" shoppers that some people drive Yugo's and some people drive BMW's and they would be better shopping around. I had one shopper call me and tell me that so-and-so would do it for "this" price, I said "thanks for calling me back and I understand that you are on a budget". They said "no, no, we want you but just wanted to see if you would match their price". I did it for my bid. Feel good moment!
 
Just a different point of reference...BTW, 3 years ago I bought an American Powertrain hydraulic throw-out bearing set-up and installed it. It works great and they were a pleasure to deal with.
You must be "the one" that had that experience...
So I got my replacement Hydramax hydraulic throwout bearing, anti spin spacer, and shims today, late in the day from FedEx that tech support at AP sent out to replace the 23 spline parts.
Here's the box and note the part numbers, one even has the "F" word on it!
Resized_processed_38692527463207.jpeg

CAFO-30005HM...
So it's too late to call AP, but I did email the guy in tech support I've been dealing with.
Here's what Summit Racing shows for the kit they sent: Hint-I see a LOT of FORD
Screenshot_20200707-001710_Chrome.jpg

Well let's just check the applications guide:
Screenshot_20200707-001729_Chrome.jpg

A WHOLE LOT of the "F" word, NO MOPAR brand ANYWHERE!
Let's see what Summit says works with the 18 spline Chrysler transmission:
Screenshot_20200707-001631_Chrome.jpg

Oh, look...CACH30006HM...
and then the application guide...
Screenshot_20200707-001646_Chrome.jpg

WOW! 100% MOPAR 18 SPLINE!!
:BangHead::mad::cursin::soapbox:
American Powertrain =:nutkick:=ME!
I already told the shop owner I was bringing the replacement parts from AP tomorrow (Tuesday) morning, and I have the RobbMc offset dowel pairs (all 3 offsets available) and one stock zero offset. The bellhousing currently has 1x 7° and 1x 0° offset dowel pair in it from a couple of years ago when the mechanic (different guy and shop) was on the dial indicator side and I was the grunt turning the crankshaft and I couldn't check his measurements, and since then I've seen where you are supposed to use the SAME offset on BOTH dowels, where I used a 7° and a 0°. Well, the trust I had in him may have been misplaced I've learned since then, and I want to be 100% certain my runout is 100% w/in tolerance, thus the $175 Browell bellhousing runout alignment kit for my Roadrunner and the GTO when it comes time to install the TKO600 I also bought from American Powertrain...oh boy! The further along I get with just the Hydramax for the Roadrunner, the more I dread the potential nightmares that a Hydramax AND a transmission from AP for the GTO is going to be!! Maybe they spent their per customer allotment of **** ups on my car, and the GTO will work out great...
I'm not going to bet on THAT!
 
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So this morning I get an email about the FORD parts they sent:
The 18 spline MoPar has the same OD bearing retainer as the Ford at 1.4370”. Measure what you have.
Well my mechanic had measured the OD of the "snout" of the input shaft "collar" or bearing retainer a week ago when the 23 spline parts wouldn't fit.
He got 1.416 on a digital micrometer.
So I guess the FORD would fit, but I asked:
"Why didn't you send the Mopar 18 spline part number unit? CACH-30006HM?"
AP replied: "That is a special order unit. The one that was sent to you is listed as the correct and current 18 spline HRB. If you wish to wait, we can order the other in."
I asked that they get the Mopar 18 spline specific parts in for me, so likely late next week.
Whether "it fits" or not, do any of you think that may be something worth discussing, disclosing, rather than just "this will do"?
 
MOPAR resto-mod:
C32AC064-1551-43E9-8771-E0B14D7EDE7E.jpeg

I have felt your pain...
Good luck Mr. Bio!
 
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