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727 shift points

machelis

machelis

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Howdy,

So i finally got my engine back in the car and put a few miles on her so far, but I've had to shift the car manually since on D it shifts waaay to quick. It's in 2nd by 8mph and 3rd between 12-14mph.

I have a single rod kickdown that's been adjusted properly several times with the wifey sitting in the driver's seat, foot to the floor. Had the rod as far back as possible then tightened up the adjustment bolt. Return spring is old, but keeps everything forward just fine. With all the research I've done, I keep reading the kickdown is off. Well i can't make the kickdown any better, so i assume something else is wrong. (I actually haven't tried stomping the throttle for see if the kickdown even works. Haven't had a chance to hit the highway yet.)

And yes, the carb and intake are aftermarket and I have the proper edelbrock kickdown shaft. Also changes the rear gears and added a higher stall converter. Not sure if those make a difference.

Any other suggestions, pictures or tests before i cave and try a lokar cable?

Thanks
 
Howdy,

Lengthen as in bend it? If i change the length, wouldn't i have to adjust the trans and carb to avoid binding? I'd presume that would get me to the same place as i am now, no?

Thanks
 
You said you have the single rod. Pop it off at the carb and turn it counter clockwise to lengthen it. Only lengthen it about two turns, take it for a drive. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Screenshot_20200905-212720.jpg
 
A couple questions. One piece kickdown with the slot end or with the snap on fitting that goes over the ball? When your wife holds the pedal to the metal did you confirm you can’t push the carb linkage any further? My understanding of your setup is that if you adjusted the linkage any further the throttle would no longer go to WOT? Lastly, what kind of carb do you have? This can make a surprisingly large difference.
 
I have the slot end. It's just a bolt that can be loosened and you slide the bracket back and forth. I wish i could spin to lengthen or shorten.

I have a quickfuel 850cfm with mechanical secondaries. If i lengthen the rod, the carb wouldn't open 100% or it would bind at the trans end. If i could post pictures, i would.
 
Ok, thought you might have the threaded end.

You need just a little more pressure on the rod. You felt the resistance on the trans leaver when you adjusted it. It can go a little more if you don't have the trans leaver bottomed out. Your carb will more than likely be fine for wide open throttle.

The reason I'm saying this is that the shift points you stated are almost there. Just a little more adjustment should make a difference.
 
I guess I'll give a bit more length and try it out again tomorrow. I'll also jump on the highway and test the actual kickdown.

If it does nothing I'll be back on here.

Thanks guys.
 
machelis said:
Howdy,

So i finally got my engine back in the car and put a few miles on her so far, but I've had to shift the car manually since on D it shifts waaay to quick. It's in 2nd by 8mph and 3rd between 12-14mph.

I have a single rod kickdown that's been adjusted properly several times with the wifey sitting in the driver's seat, foot to the floor. Had the rod as far back as possible then tightened up the adjustment bolt. Return spring is old, but keeps everything forward just fine. With all the research I've done, I keep reading the kickdown is off. Well i can't make the kickdown any better, so i assume something else is wrong. (I actually haven't tried stomping the throttle for see if the kickdown even works. Haven't had a chance to hit the highway yet.)

And yes, the carb and intake are aftermarket and I have the proper edelbrock kickdown shaft. Also changes the rear gears and added a higher stall converter. Not sure if those make a difference.

Any other suggestions, pictures or tests before i cave and try a lokar cable?

Thanks
Click to expand...


You need to verify that the kick down lever on the trans is being pushed all the way back, and the rod isn't bent and hitting on something.
 
What year car, which engine?
And is the kickdown from the same?
For example later 1 piece 2bbl kickdowns don't work very well with a 4,bbl even with the correct linkage on the carb in my experience. I like higher upshift and downshift to 2nd on decel so I usually need to put a small bolt in the slot and sometimes start with tension from a spring holding the kickdown part way back even at idle. Just some other ideas to try to get it to work the way you want.
 
Remove the spring that is returning the linkage, this will let it go back some and see if it works better. I had the same thing you’ve got. I did this Spring removal to it and it works great. There are adjustment on the valve body also so they can all be a little different.

definately check to make sure it travels,free without hitting anything.

lokar will not help, they have their own problems.
 
So the engine and trans came from a '72 newport. Pulled out then plopped in. It was a 4 barrel engine so the linkage should be fine. Every time i tried adjusting the rod, i would check for obstructions along the firewall and under the car.

I was actually checking some old pictures from before the teardown and i noticed originally there was no return spring and she shifted just fine. I'll mess around with all these ideas and report back.

Thanks fellas.
 
Another thing that’s been discussed recently, especially in relation to the Holley and Quickfuel carbs with Mopar adapter is the overall travel. Picture it this way, if the lever was fully pushed back all of the time the shifts would always be at higher speed right? And if the lever only did anything at all for the last 1” of travel but your carb required 5” of travel to go from idle to WOT there would be no benefit to shift timing for the first 4/5 of the travel right?

That’s an exaggeration but it’s basically what’s happening. Go find that original 440 carb and measure how far it is from the shaft centerline to the throttle cable / kickdown connection point. Do the same on your new carb too. You’ll almost certainly find that the distance is larger on the new one. Bigger radius = linger throw = more of the motion does nothing. The fix is to drill a new hole in the mopar / Holley throttle attachment bracket that’s closer to the pivot. This was the gas pedal moves less for the same effect but more significantly the kickdown starts out more compressed, moving the shift points. If adjusted to bottom out simultaneously with the carb the end point is always the same anyway.
 
Nate S said:
Another thing that’s been discussed recently, especially in relation to the Holley and Quickfuel carbs with Mopar adapter is the overall travel. Picture it this way, if the lever was fully pushed back all of the time the shifts would always be at higher speed right? And if the lever only did anything at all for the last 1” of travel but your carb required 5” of travel to go from idle to WOT there would be no benefit to shift timing for the first 4/5 of the travel right?

That’s an exaggeration but it’s basically what’s happening. Go find that original 440 carb and measure how far it is from the shaft centerline to the throttle cable / kickdown connection point. Do the same on your new carb too. You’ll almost certainly find that the distance is larger on the new one. Bigger radius = linger throw = more of the motion does nothing. The fix is to drill a new hole in the mopar / Holley throttle attachment bracket that’s closer to the pivot. This was the gas pedal moves less for the same effect but more significantly the kickdown starts out more compressed, moving the shift points. If adjusted to bottom out simultaneously with the carb the end point is always the same anyway.
Click to expand...

I agree, the different carb throttle levers make a big difference in the lever ratio & linkage travel.
 
Where would the new hole in the Holley bracket be drilled?
Nate S said:
Another thing that’s been discussed recently, especially in relation to the Holley and Quickfuel carbs with Mopar adapter is the overall travel. Picture it this way, if the lever was fully pushed back all of the time the shifts would always be at higher speed right? And if the lever only did anything at all for the last 1” of travel but your carb required 5” of travel to go from idle to WOT there would be no benefit to shift timing for the first 4/5 of the travel right?

That’s an exaggeration but it’s basically what’s happening. Go find that original 440 carb and measure how far it is from the shaft centerline to the throttle cable / kickdown connection point. Do the same on your new carb too. You’ll almost certainly find that the distance is larger on the new one. Bigger radius = linger throw = more of the motion does nothing. The fix is to drill a new hole in the mopar / Holley throttle attachment bracket that’s closer to the pivot. This was the gas pedal moves less for the same effect but more significantly the kickdown starts out more compressed, moving the shift points. If adjusted to bottom out simultaneously with the carb the end point is always the same anyway.
Click to expand...
 
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