Better headlights?

Slantsixdan said:

Right now the objectively-best H4 high/low beam and H1 high beam large and small round lamps are glass-and-metal units made in Japan by Koito, one of the top suppliers of lights and lamps to the world's automakers, and the best bulbs are made by Tungsram (GE of Europe), so that's what I keep in stock. That's likely to remain the case for the foreseeable future, but posterity is actually a good reason not to post recommendations for posterity.

Equipment availability and recommendability varies. It shifts and drifts as products are discontinued and introduced, and any given lamp or bulb's performance and quality can change a lot—tooling gets worn out and doesn't get renewed, companies shift production from a good line to a cruddy one or they outsource it to a country known more for trinkets than for quality, companies and product lines get bought and sold, etc. So stuff like "I've always used [brand]" or "[company] makes good lights" can wind up being bad advice.

Apart from that, there's a ton of junk on the market, at a wide price range, all of it hyped as an "upgrade".

Whatever headlamps you get, put in relays and good wiring—though even the best wiring and bulbs won't "save" bad headlamps.

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I'm curious as to why, perhaps a general objection, to HID systems. 6000k lamp color, far "outshines" a halogen H4, dual filament lamp, and a 100w H1 single filament lamp. The correct measurement is at a common point, say lumens/ft at a common distance.
Quartz Halogen luminaries have been around for 40 years. They are a significant improvement over the old tungsten filament sealed beams. There is nothing magical with a Quartz Halogen lamp. The Quartz is a Quartz glass compound which is able to operate at the higher Tungsten filament temperatures. Halogen is a halide gas that the bulb envelope is filled with, enabling the evaporated metallic Tungsten, due to the high operating temps (this process is called sublimation-going from a solid to a gas without going thru a liquid phase) to be re-deposited back to the filament. The metallic tungsten is evaporated fue to the higher operating temperature. These lamps are STILL susceptible to vibration and overvoltages. Plus, they consume just as much power as a regular sealed beam unit.
HID lamps, however, do not have any filaments. Because require a ballast, the system is slightly more complicated. The ballast allows for LOWER power consumption yet still allows the lamp to produce more LUMENS/Ft than a Quartz Halogen lamp. There are NO filaments inside the lamp. The light is produced by an ARC inside the lamp through XENON GAS. Its the best of both worlds....intensely bright light, at lower amperage draw, and vibration immune.
The HID system is ~ 10-15% more expensive than a Quartz Halogen system....for my money, I've opted for the HID system......you get more light for lower power consumption......but for those that don't understand the physical differences between the two systems and their distinct differences in the light produced .... but this is just my opinion of course.
BOB RENTON

A friend bought these CSGT lamps by mistake. He needed 4 lamp bulbs and bought two lamp bulbs. So he gave them to me and I install them in my car along with relays. Man what a difference. I can see clear down the road.

I agree that HID is brighter and use less power but on a lot of new cars, HID is old fashioned as LED is taking over. As for 6000k, that seems to be the starting point for kids doing swaps; factory installations are generally 4200-4300K although it's not uncommon for the colour to shift up to around 4700 after 100 hours of use.

the unconscience on the driver's around and youth competition ( maybe they need to supply their short dick with a light presence against the rest of their gang LOL ) is what makes to kids change to 6000K. While is true 6000K light is more realistic and close to sunlight brightness shown real colors around, we never have the sun shooting a beam straight to our eyes while driving ( direct light or mirror reflected ) even less at nights with fully open iris on our eyes, hence why 4000-4500K is more healthy for drivers and I say even better 3800-4200K. Damn, even cluster illumination is able to kill our vision on long driving along dark highways!

Sure a 6000K light is less killer driving down the city illumination since our eyes is more adapted to that light conditions and able to hold that light shot better, but is still harmful.

RJRENTON said:

I'm curious as to why, perhaps a general objection, to HID systems.

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There's no real objection to legitimate HID headlamps. "Legitimate" is the key word.

You're right that there's nothing magical about H4 bulbs, or H1 bulbs, or halogen bulbs in general, or the lamps that take them. But of the legitimate options, they are usually the most cost-effective kind of upgrade for a car that came with sealed beams.

Here's the important thing: halogen lamps must use halogen bulbs or they don't (can't, won't) work effectively, safely, or legally.

"HID kits" in halogen-bulb headlamps or fog/auxiliary lamps (any kit, any lamp, any vehicle no matter whether it's a car, truck, motorcycle, etc.) do not work safely or effectively, which is why they are illegal. Learn the detailed info here.

Same goes for the "LED bulbs" now flooding the market, claiming to convert halogen headlamps to LED—they are all fraudulent, no matter whose name is on them or what the vendor claims. They are not capable of producing the right amounts of light, nor producing it in the right pattern for a halogen lamp's optics to work. Learn details here .

Nutshell version: this is not like trying out different bulbs in the kitchen or living room or garage, where all it has to do is light up in a way you find adequate and pleasing. Headlamps aren't just flood or spot lights; they are precision optical instruments (yes, even a cheap and minimal headlamp counts as a precision optical instrument) that have a complex, difficult job to do in terms of simultaneously putting light where it's needed, keeping it away from where it's harmful, and controlling the amounts of light at numerous locations within the beam to appropriate levels (too much light in certain areas is just as dangerous as not enough). Headlamps cannot just spray out a random blob of light, and that's what they do with anything other than the intended correct kind of light source.

There is one legitimate HID (BiXenon) headlamp in the large round 7" size. Excellent performance and quality, but bug-eyed appearance to go along with the eye-popping price tag.

There are two versions of the one legitimate LED headlamp in the small round 5.75" size; all the rest of the many claimed LED headlamps in this size are worthless trinkets. good ones are this (no daytime running light or turn signal built in) and this (with integral LED parking light, daytime running light, and turn signal -- all functions safety-approved; this is not greasy kid stuff). These are thoroughly outstanding headlamps, very well made in America. They cost a lot of money, and the car's headlamp mount cups need their central holes enlarged to clear the rear body of these lamps.

6000k lamp color

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That's about right for the legitimate LED headlamps; legitimate HIDs are around 4200K (though the "HID kit" trinkets are available in all kinds of color temperatures. High color temperature (blue-white light) is an "advantage" only from the standpoint of marketing/fashion; it is not actually "whiter" or "closer to natural daylight" or better for seeing.

The correct measurement is at a common point, say lumens/ft at a common distance.

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No, "lumens/ft" is not a real unit of measurement of anything. Headlight performance can be measured as illuminance (in lux), or as intensity (in candela at angular positions), or as flux (in lumens, but we have to be careful to keep track of the difference between source lumens coming from the light bulb/HID burner/LEDs and road lumens coming out the front of the headlamp and actually making it onto the road). These measurements are not interchangeable; what measurement to use depends on exactly what we want to describe and quantify.

Probably the biggest problem is that vehicle lighting, especially effective headlighting, is a whole lot more complex than it seems. Unscrupulous pushers (vendors of fraudulent products) know this and exploit it: put up a website or a post or a shelf display tossing around a few technical terms, get the consumer thinking they've been educated and know what they're talking about, then the cash register rings and the consumer gets on the internet to spread what they think of as their knowledge. I certainly don't mean to slam the consumer here; they're just trying to see better at night. Most of them have no interest or desire in becoming experts, they just want to see better at night, and that desire, plus knowledge that only feels correct and sufficient, plus the false "I know what I can see" effect I described in an earlier post in this thread leads them to make bad decisions that make their cars into rolling safety hazards—to themselves, everyone else in the car, and everyone sharing road space with them.

The HID system is ~ 10-15% more expensive than a Quartz Halogen system.

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If you're buying fraudulent, unsafe trinkets, sure. If you're buying legitimate lamps, HIDs cost a lot more than that.

Vehicle lights are life-safety equipment. It's important to pick them based on actual, real safety performance, not on fashion or style or bogus claims—and there are a lot of bogus claims out there.

(I'm Chief Editor of the global vehicle lighting and driver assistance industry's technical journal of record; my ability to keep a roof over my head and food in my fridge depends on being right about this stuff and keeping my knowledge up to date)

Back in the day for a 4 headlight setup we used aircraft landing lights for the high beams. They put out a rectangular beam which seemed like 2 miles down the road. Illegal of course. Blinded the hell out of any oncoming traffic.

Slantsixdan said:

There's no real objection to legitimate HID headlamps. "Legitimate" is the key word.

You're right that there's nothing magical about H4 bulbs, or H1 bulbs, or halogen bulbs in general, or the lamps that take them. But of the legitimate options, they are usually the most cost-effective kind of upgrade for a car that came with sealed beams.

Here's the important thing: halogen lamps must use halogen bulbs or they don't (can't, won't) work effectively, safely, or legally.

"HID kits" in halogen-bulb headlamps or fog/auxiliary lamps (any kit, any lamp, any vehicle no matter whether it's a car, truck, motorcycle, etc.) do not work safely or effectively, which is why they are illegal. Learn the detailed info here.

Same goes for the "LED bulbs" now flooding the market, claiming to convert halogen headlamps to LED—they are all fraudulent, no matter whose name is on them or what the vendor claims. They are not capable of producing the right amounts of light, nor producing it in the right pattern for a halogen lamp's optics to work. Learn details here .

Nutshell version: this is not like trying out different bulbs in the kitchen or living room or garage, where all it has to do is light up in a way you find adequate and pleasing. Headlamps aren't just flood or spot lights; they are precision optical instruments (yes, even a cheap and minimal headlamp counts as a precision optical instrument) that have a complex, difficult job to do in terms of simultaneously putting light where it's needed, keeping it away from where it's harmful, and controlling the amounts of light at numerous locations within the beam to appropriate levels (too much light in certain areas is just as dangerous as not enough). Headlamps cannot just spray out a random blob of light, and that's what they do with anything other than the intended correct kind of light source.

There is one legitimate HID (BiXenon) headlamp in the large round 7" size. Excellent performance and quality, but bug-eyed appearance to go along with the eye-popping price tag.

There are two versions of the one legitimate LED headlamp in the small round 5.75" size; all the rest of the many claimed LED headlamps in this size are worthless trinkets. good ones are this (no daytime running light or turn signal built in) and this (with integral LED parking light, daytime running light, and turn signal -- all functions safety-approved; this is not greasy kid stuff). These are thoroughly outstanding headlamps, very well made in America. They cost a lot of money, and the car's headlamp mount cups need their central holes enlarged to clear the rear body of these lamps.



That's about right for the legitimate LED headlamps; legitimate HIDs are around 4200K (though the "HID kit" trinkets are available in all kinds of color temperatures. High color temperature (blue-white light) is an "advantage" only from the standpoint of marketing/fashion; it is not actually "whiter" or "closer to natural daylight" or better for seeing.



No, "lumens/ft" is not a real unit of measurement of anything. Headlight performance can be measured as illuminance (in lux), or as intensity (in candela at angular positions), or as flux (in lumens, but we have to be careful to keep track of the difference between source lumens coming from the light bulb/HID burner/LEDs and road lumens coming out the front of the headlamp and actually making it onto the road). These measurements are not interchangeable; what measurement to use depends on exactly what we want to describe and quantify.

Probably the biggest problem is that vehicle lighting, especially effective headlighting, is a whole lot more complex than it seems. Unscrupulous pushers (vendors of fraudulent products) know this and exploit it: put up a website or a post or a shelf display tossing around a few technical terms, get the consumer thinking they've been educated and know what they're talking about, then the cash register rings and the consumer gets on the internet to spread what they think of as their knowledge. I certainly don't mean to slam the consumer here; they're just trying to see better at night. Most of them have no interest or desire in becoming experts, they just want to see better at night, and that desire, plus knowledge that only feels correct and sufficient, plus the false "I know what I can see" effect I described in an earlier post in this thread leads them to make bad decisions that make their cars into rolling safety hazards—to themselves, everyone else in the car, and everyone sharing road space with them.



If you're buying fraudulent, unsafe trinkets, sure. If you're buying legitimate lamps, HIDs cost a lot more than that.

Vehicle lights are life-safety equipment. It's important to pick them based on actual, real safety performance, not on fashion or style or bogus claims—and there are a lot of bogus claims out there.

(I'm Chief Editor of the global vehicle lighting and driver assistance industry's technical journal of record; my ability to keep a roof over my head and food in my fridge depends on being right about this stuff and keeping my knowledge up to date)

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I appreciate your comments.....enlightening....
For my application, price is not a consideration. I going to purchase, in my estimation, the best and brightest of the systems currently offered including the current LED offerings.
I disagree with your premise re color temperature as my individual preference is 6000° K temperature, which presents as blue-white. True, the secret of a successful installation is the optics of the enclosue and reflector and for my application, a GMC Yukon Denali, which uses a bi-xenon lamp system, owing to the requirement of a LO beam/HIGH beam luminary assembly. A bi-xenon lamp has a single arc tube, mounted on a solenoid activated base, which, when energized, moves the focal point of the arc tube to change the forward projection of the beam in the reflector/enclosure.
As far as a measurement of the light generated, I stand corrected. In years past, because of a close encounter with a deer on a deserted country road, I retrofitted my vehicle with the "best" system available at the time; CIBIE 7" round luminaries with 55/100 watt H4 lamps AND CIBIE 8" Super Oscars with 100 w H2 lamps, all on a relay controlled circuit and a high current alternator. To me, there is nothing more terrifying than have something appear out of the darkness without warning on a country road. The expression about "over driving" your headlights is, in my opinion, absolutely real and this is the underlying reasons for my need/want for high power illumination on my vehicles. The CIBIE system I used on my old ride, would project a beam of light approximately one plus mile down the road plus illuminating the edges of the road. Was this legal? Probably not but at the time, I lived in Pennsylvania, where vehicle "safety" (and emission) inspections were required. As my CIBIE 7" luminaries were NOT sealed beam units, and the safety inspector never recognized the difference.
Looking at the current LED offerings, many of the lamps appear to have/need large heat sinks on the base of the lamp to dissipate the heat generated by the LED assembly. To me, this seems a waste of energy. The HID/Xenon lamp's operating parameters, both voltage and current, are controlled and regulated by the ballast assembly, which provides the DC to AC inverter function to operate the lamp at optimal conditions to maximise light output and minimize conversion losses.
I guess is why there are several types of lighting systems on the market.....you pay your money and take your choice with the final determination based on affordability and expected results. In my application, I choose the Xenon/HID system. Again, thank you for your email and the information....
BOB RENTON

A lot of guys are using relay systems to enhance their lighting system and I've never seen a negative response. Relay systems can be very effective. But, I would also suggest that if your present existing wiring has deteriorated to a point that the headlights have become less efficient, then a complete inspection of your entire wiring system would be necessary. Pay special attention to the one apparent weak link in most older Mopars, the bulkhead terminal. Maintaining all grounding points is also a must.

Ok, if I'm understanding what all is being discussed here by WAY more competent folks than myself....
If one wants to install the best lights in a 4-bulb factory setting, using the factory wiring and such
without any new wiring, relays, etc.....
Then the good ol' H1/H4 Halogens are about as far as we can safely go, correct?

Anything better/beyond that requires something like what /6 Dan does, right?

These are the bolt in halogen headlights Summit sells, pretty happy with them.

i upgraded to LED, very happy with them, but.. had to cut up headlight buckets to mount them..

The factory wiring for headlights is not efficient at all. Lights ran dim at idle all the time when new.

Relays are a great way to get efficiency up to snuff.

Crackedback said:

The factory wiring for headlights is not efficient at all. Lights ran dim at idle all the time when new.

Relays are a great way to get efficiency up to snuff.

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True but it wasn't necessarily due to the wiring itself. OEM alternators were not necessarily considered high output. Some were as low as 35 amps. That and old OEM voltage regulators weren't designed for full output at idle RPM's. Alternators are advertised at max output which has little to do with idle RPM output. Some do not disclose their idle output at all. That's why it's important when upgrading an alternator/regulator system to try to find out the manufacturers "idle output". Personally, if they can't supply that information I would not buy it.

1960 Valiant ads when the alternator was introduced.