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4 speed clutch issues

Thought about what you said in the first post, even if that was true, the PP is still bolted to the flywheel so it will always be the same distance away. the only difference would be I would have to adjust the rod, so I do not think it is that. I just checked and they are the correct bolts. They have a shoulder on them and I would think they are bottoming out before they are completely tight. We will see.
 
moparfanUSA said:
Thought about what you said in the first post, even if that was true, the PP is still bolted to the flywheel so it will always be the same distance away. the only difference would be I would have to adjust the rod, so I do not think it is that. I just checked and they are the correct bolts. They have a shoulder on them and I would think they are bottoming out before they are completely tight. We will see.
Click to expand...
I was thinking the disk hub may have been hitting the flywheel to crank bolt heads, but I agree with what you say.
 
If I understand it, you have a gap between the clutch cover and flywheel when tightened down?
upload_2020-10-19_16-26-48.png


If so, can you ad washers under the bolt heads to close that gap?
As long as the cover is still on the bolt shoulder and not the threads it can work I would think.
 
OK, here is the update. We took out the PP, disk and the flywheel. The flywheel had 3 big black spots on it, so we know that they were "hard spots" even after on the flywheel was just resurfaced. The PP did not look good ( keep in mind there was only 5 miles on the whole set up) nor did the disk. Again we found that only about 25% of the flywheel and disk were actually touching each other. You can see on the flywheel where you can still see the resurfacing is still there and has not even been touched.

SO........we replaced all of the parts, PP, throw-out bearing, disk ( all zoom stuff)AND the flywheel, all brand new. We did NOT touch any of the parts without laytex gloves and brake cleaned all of the surfaces. Once all put back together, same issues, but now when you let out the clutch it chatters real bad, even when shifting, in any case that is only PART of the problem. Took it for a test drive and the clutch started slipping AGAIN. I can get it going fine for a dead stop, but if you give it any big power it starts slipping and you can smell it burning.
The trans goes back into the pilot hole nice an easy, no fight there. We are at a loss as what is happening and how to fix it.
I am not doing any of these installs. I have a guy that has been doing this for 50 years and have friends take their cars to him with no issues at all.
I have checked all of the linkage from the clutch pedal to the adjustment rods, springs, ect and can fine nothing wrong.
We are down to "maybe the bell housing is some how off"?
4 of us including the installer do not know where to go from here. I called Brewers to see if they could shed a lite on this, but they were zero help ( every time I call them, by their tone of their voice it always seems like I am brothering them somehow).
As I said I have no idea where to go from here, but I would guess that only 25% of the parts are touching each other again, so it must be somewhere else, but no idea where to look or try, to many $$$ going into this with zero to show for it.
 
I would try Zoom tech support if you bought all of their parts.

Are you sure the disc is the proper size for the flywheel?
 
padam said:
Are you sure the disc is the proper size for the flywheel?
Click to expand...
What I was just thinking - "is he actually buying the right size clutch for the flywheel and/or bellhousing?"
 
I have used 10.5" disc's and 11" ones. So I have tried both sizes. I have used 10.5" disc with an 11" PP also. The new flywheel will only take 11" Pressure plates.
 
have you checked runout on the flywheel while bolted to the crank,bent crank flange? see post #24! the manufacturer should have a spring compression distance to aquire proper grip!
 
Every clutch set you put in this does this.
This seems to rule out a clutch set problem. All they really do is link the crank to the trans input shaft with a 5/16" thick disc.
Sounds to me like it's time to look elsewhere for cause.
Maybe.......
Check that bell housing bearing retainer hole and face runout.
Is the trans bearing retainer the correct size for the bell hole?
Is the input shaft bearing worn out on the trans?


From Post 21
moparfanUSA said:
....... Also the adjustment on the rod is all the way out. 23 spline 143 tooth flywheel
Click to expand...

Is this still the case?
Have you looked at the fore and aft motion of your crank shaft for a possible worn out thrust bearing?
A video camera can help you see this.

Below a worn 440 auto crank ....

upload_2020-10-28_9-10-4.png
 
Yes Dave, good points. We placed a straight edge on the Pressure plate today and on 2 of them the outside was flat. but from the middle on into the center there was about 1/16, to 1/8 gap, still might not be the pressure plates but both of them were not flat, which shows up on both disk's and flywheels where neither one was touching from the middle inward. Oh, and we had a stock Chevy pressure plate and put the straight edge across it and it was flat. I will try and take pictures and post them.
 
Sounds like flywheel is not flush on the crank shaft, or bent crank?
 
Even if the flywheel is not flush on the crank shaft, the PP is bolted to it and the whole thing would wobble with the bent flange.
 
It seems like alignment issues would cause other symptoms, like hard shifting and noise.
 
We were thinking that they might be, but we checked and they did not.
 
So another update. We took it ( I was there helping) all apart again, and after 1 hour of use ( these parts only have 1 hour on them) we found the same results (these are all brand new parts). The PP has burn spots and most of it does not have any contact with the disk. The flywheel has the same burnt marks and you can tell some spots where not even touched. We put a gauge on the flywheel to check if it was warped to it and the gauge said it was out .002, which is normal. We then checked the end play of the flywheel and only had about .005 of free play, again well within spec. Checked to make sure the throw-out bearing was not touching the PP and it was not. We also checked to make sure the input shaft goes far enough into the crankshaft, and that is good. Even when we took the 4 bolts out the trans did not back off, it stayed flush with the bell housing. I also checked the bell housing numbers and it fits 11" disks for a 69 440, so we are good there.
Also checked to make sure the input shaft tuned freely and there was no essceivive play around and in and out.
Engine mounts are perfect as is the trans mount.
So still can't find the problem. Here are the pictures. We also checked the PP on top of the fly wheel before we put the bolts on and then tighten the bolts and the fingers closed in towards the flywheel by about 3/4"-1", so looks like plenty of pressure being applied.

fly.jpg PP.jpg
 
The heat colors have a matching pattern on the flywheel and pressure plate.

How much power is your motor putting out?
 
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