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Power to manual steering box

rmchrgr

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Pulling my hair out with power steering leaks. Regrettably, I have a bunch of money in my power steering system and only a few hundred miles on it. It's all new, modern stuff - Borgeson box, Borgeson "Saginaw" style pump, new "correct" Saginaw style repro pressure line and -AN fittings on the return hose. Does not seem to matter, might as well be worn-out 52 years old parts. Overall it works fine when under power but the leaks got me thinking about ditching it altogether and going to manual.

In my ongoing struggle with leaks, I've replaced hoses, made my own hoses, tightened fittings, re-tightened fittings, bled it 'till the cows came home, yada yada yada. Still leaks. It's basically a forgone conclusion that there's going to be a power steering fluid puddle under the car every time I drive it.

I've read where muscle cars shouldn't have power steering anyway but that's gearhead hyperbole. I do in fact have manual steering in my Ricky-Racer 3,000lb small block Duster which makes sense but going au naturel in a 3,800lb + street driven B barge is another story.

Yes, I know low speed maneuvers/parking with a manual box will take a little more effort but 98.6% of the time the car will be moving and once you're rolling over 3 mph, the increased effort is negligible.

Other benefits include ditching weight off the front and more room. Will have to get a power to manual adapter but that's no big deal, I may even have one somewhere. And unless I'm wrong, the pitman arm should be the same.

So has anyone else go from power assisted steering to manual in their big block equipped 68-70 B body and are glad they did it? Specifically looking at a Firm Feel 20:1 box.

Any input is appreciated.

Greg
 
I did it to my Coronet, but it has pizza cutters on it. Yes I'm glad I did it
I can't imagine doing it to my heavy street charger with a stick since I really drive it in everyday type ways. Might be fine for a cruise in machine.
 
I’d be curious to know just exactly where the leaks are coming from. Everything being new, is there any warranty from Borgeson?
 
Goodness, Greg, that's quite the well thought out case you've made for the switch.
Only problem with it is....you're the only one who has to be convinced to make the change.

By asking for other opinions, there's only two conclusions to be drawn here:
a. you aren't quite as sure as your dissertation would lend to believe - and are seeking
reinforcing opinions supporting the change, to help you make up your mind
or...
b. you actually want to keep the power steering and just want to commiserate with others
who have fought that gallant battle of making aftermarket stuff work in these old rides

Ok, I'll play. For my own experiences, all my b-bodies have had manual steering, including
Fred now - but, was that a conscious choice on my part?
Nope - but it wasn't as big a deal in younger years as it is now, either.
Pushing 60 for me and 53 for Fred, I'm still fine with it - but I can now see the day when
I'd just as soon have power assist for the steering in that nose-heavy 440 critter.

Swap ya? :)
 
Prindle - No warranty on the parts. I bought the box off a forum a couple years ago so I'm SOL. It was advertised as new, have no reason to believe it wasn't. Pump came from Summit earlier this year.

I've read up on leaks with these things, could be the box cap seal but I doubt it. The line fittings really should be o-ringed but they're not. Looked at the return nipple on the pump body to see if I could cut the end off and flare it for a fitting but there wasn't enough room. Regardless, shouldn't be this hard to get it to stop leaking.

Furyous70 - My Duster has front runners so very little weight, small road surface contact patch, never felt tough to turn the wheel. The current tires on my Coronet are 225/60-15 radials which are going to create way more friction. If there are any drawbacks switching to manual I really feel like it will be parking but that could be a pretty big drawbac.

Ed - thanks for the input. I pretty much know the answer but I like to put these kind of questions out there to see if there is something I might be missing. My go-to logic for these types of things is that if it caused major drivabilty issues, was unsafe or what have you, the factory would not have made big block b bodies with manual steering. But they did.
 
I don’t have the leaks that you do, I just don’t like the feel of the stock power steering. I’ve had a new Firm Feel 20:1 manual steering box left over from my a-bodies that will go in my Belvedere this winter.
 
I say make the Borgeson system work, whatever it takes. The steering performance is worth it, IMO. In my case, my 69 has had power steering leaks since I bought it in 94, and over the years I've swapped boxes, pumps, hoses, blah blah blah and its always leaked. Over 26 years I've just come to accept it as a behavior of the car lol. Again I say make the Borgeson work...
 
I say make the Borgeson system work, whatever it takes. The steering performance is worth it, IMO. In my case, my 69 has had power steering leaks since I bought it in 94, and over the years I've swapped boxes, pumps, hoses, blah blah blah and its always leaked. Over 26 years I've just come to accept it as a behavior of the car lol. Again I say make the Borgeson work...

Kinda what I am doing right now but I can't just accept leaks. For all intents and purposes, it does what it's supposed to but for the money and effort I have into it, the fluid should really stay inside it.
 
No reason for it to leak, even my 52 year old OE box in the SBird doesn't leak !

Right! That’s what I’m getting at, if everything is installed correctly, (I believe it is) it should not be leaking.
 
Still kind of on the fence about this but grabbed my manual boxes from storage to keep it in front of me. Didn't even realize I had two. The cleaner one is actually NOS, still has the Cosmoline on it! If I decide to use what I have on hand already, guess that'd be the one to use... although, the lubricant inside is probably dried up. Not sure I want to take it apart just to clean it and re-lube it, if I can even find manual gearbox lube.
IMG_1179.JPG

On the other side of the coin, I called Borgeson to ask them about my leaks, they naturally didn't have any real advice. Afterwards, I looked into using their brand-specific hoses. While looking at it, I noticed their lines are spec'd at 3/8" as opposed to the factory style I have now which are 11/32". Wondering if that slight difference in volume could be what is causing the leaks, maybe the pressure is too much for the smaller hose diameter.

After cleaning everything up, cranking the fittings down and topping off the fluid for the umpteenth time, I drove it a around the other day, still leaking as bad as usual, if not worse. But as has been the case, it's fine, no loss of assist, no noise etc., just fluid everywhere. For the $80 it will cost me for the Borgeson-branded hoses, guess I should give the power steering one more shot. Frankly though, if I can't get it to stay dry by changing hoses, I'm done with it.

Of course the Firm Feel 20:1 box I'm looking at is not free or cheap, it's $554 but that's only with the $250 core charge which thankfully I can cover. But still, I'm looking at shipping my one core box out to F.F., shelling out for their unit plus another $115 or so for a power-to-manual column adapter. Then I get to to go through the exercise of changing it all...

Sometimes this stuff is not fun.
 
NOS gear box, turn it upside down with the fill plug out and put it somewhere really warm in the Sun or on very low in an oven with a drain pan under it. That'll warm the light grease up and it'll drain out. Refill with John Deere "Corn Head" grease.
 
NOS gear box, turn it upside down with the fill plug out and put it somewhere really warm in the Sun or on very low in an oven with a drain pan under it. That'll warm the light grease up and it'll drain out. Refill with John Deere "Corn Head" grease.

Thanks. No sun out today. Can use my heat gun on low, maybe that will do the trick.

Corn Head grease is expensive. Found a place that sells 600wt oil for antique cars.

https://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_...weight-1-quart.html?crosssell=Product_Related
 
The Charger has manual steering, and I will keep it that way, even if it has been suggested that I switch to power steering. If I have have a problem turning the wheel after I get it back together, I have power steering boxes, columns, brackets and pumps to do the switch. One thing, the 4 speed stays.
 
Corn Head grease is 9 bucks a tube!.. and that's Canunk bucks! I googled and you can buy it in the USA for less than $4us a tube!
https://www.greenpartstore.com/John-Deere-Special-Purpose-Corn-Head-Gun-Grease-AN102562.html

Huh, guess I just misread what I saw! Between the Corn Hole stuff or the 600wt oil looks like I can get what I need pretty easily, thanks.

Anyway, I checked the "NOS" box over. Definitely will need to be cleaned out and re-lubed, the old grease is all caked up inside. It turns but not smoothly. OTOH, the grimy one cleaned up OK and happens to turn much easier. Took that unit out of my Duster several years ago so I know it works however I'm a little skeptical about it. The adjuster is only showing about a thread and a half and it looks like the seals could be shot.
 
Put some UV leak detector in the pump reservoir,run it a few minute's and find the leak with a black light flash light.

What kind of fluid are you using ? The reason I ask is my friend had a Ranger pick up that leaked power steering fluid like crazy--well rangers use ATF in the power steering--I drained out the power steering fluid he put in and put in ATF and it stopped leaking instantly.----I know different animal but something to think about.
 
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