70 Charger 500 survivor, shows FF4 body FF4 roof...but has vinyl?

Triplegreen500 · Dec 12, 2020

Hi, still learning my "new" Charger 500 here. Fender tag and broadcast sheet both show FF4 paint on both body and roof. No V1F green vinyl top. Fender tag also shows M31 body belt moldings, which (I think?) are the stainless trim at the bottom of the vinyl roof? Did any Chargers have M31 with a steel roof? Or, does M31 mean that yes, it had a vinyl top from the factory?

Here's the first odd part - as you can see, it has what appears to be an original vinyl top.

Looks like original cut, original material, original vintage/wear, and original color.

But.

As you can also see, the Charger emblems are in the wrong place - about 1" too high, and about 2" too far back. Both sides - they match each other, and they're both wrong. I see no signs of them having been 'moved' - no dents, no divots, can't feel anything through the vinyl (how did the emblems attach - to the vinyl? Or to tabs embedded in the roof?). And, the large spot above the rear window where the vinyl is pulling away? Certainly has FF4 green paint underneath (I thought vinyl top cars had unpainted roof panels?).

I have the original bill of sale for the car, and there is no mention of a dealer-installed top.

I'm stumped. Anyone have any guesses? I'm waiting for my title to arrive, so I can scan it and send it, along with the fender tag image, and broadcast sheet image, and car images, to Galen to see what he thinks...

Also (unrelated) - is the black panel above the taillights and below the trunklid, supposed to be black on a 1970 500? Or should it be green?

chargervert · Dec 12, 2020

My 70 Charger R/T V code car had a green vynal top on it, but the car had a fully painted white roof with lead seams on the C pillars. I always figured that the dealer added the vynal top. The holes for the moldings look like they were done at the factory, but on the fender tag it says white painted roof and white body paint, like your car does.

R413 · Dec 12, 2020

You don’t need Galen to tell you the top was added after it left the St Louis factory in July. There is nothing odd about it, people LOVED vinyl tops back then and this one got the treatment. That body side moulding was added also. The roof emblems had holes drilled and pins that went into retainer inserts in the holes.

Please do tell us where you got the idea that sending Galen some money And all you paperwork was a good idea? Anybody with knowledge or a code book cane decode this car, for free! Here you go.

E44 318 engine
D31 904 automatic trans
XP29 1970 Charger 500
G 318 engine
0 1970 model year
G. St Louis assembly plant
254178 Sequential number
FF4 twice = top and body paint
EF8 upper door frame paint
C6F8 Charger dark Green bucket seats
706 July 6 1970 scheduled production date
044625 Vehicle Order Number
A01 light package
C16 console
C55 bucket seats
G36 dual racing mirrors, painted
***Very rare option on 70 Charger***
H51 A/C
J25 3 speed wipers
L31 hood turn signals
M21 drip rail mouldings
M31 body belt mouldings (by side glass top of body)
R11 AM radio
Y16 sales bank (car was spec built and in a pool)
26 26” radiator opening
END. No More codes

chargervert · Dec 12, 2020

I have a full Galen Govier inspection report on the white V code Charger R/T, but it was done by a previous owner, not by me.

DeltaV · Dec 12, 2020

Looks nice!
:thumbsup:

chargervert · Dec 12, 2020

The OPs car appears to have Chrome racing mirrors. The painted ones look like this. Painted racing mirrors were only available on high impact colored cars.

Michael_ · Dec 12, 2020

Wow thats a VERY nice looking 70' charger.

Triplegreen500 · Dec 12, 2020

By "body side molding" I assume you mean the black plastic stick-on anti-ding strip...I know that isn't factory, and I need to figure out how to remove it without removing paint (the adhesive is like cement at this point; there are no hardware attachment points, its all adhesive).

I have already decoded my fender tag, hence my confusion compared to what it says, and what physically sits in my garage. My main questions are:

1. how does the car have a vinyl top with zero reference to vinyl on the build sheet and fender tag
2. did they build painted-top cars with the stainless trim at the base of the roof, or does that M31 code for body belt moldings, indicate that it DID have a vinyl top when it was built even though there is no V1F for green vinyl roof? Or, was there some sort of "outsource" program where cars were sent to a factory-authorized shop to have the tops put on, and the M31 was the extent of the factory involvement?

...and, I guess, 3. how are the Charger emblems in the wrong place? Do I have four empty holes (potential leak points) under that top somewhere that I couldn't feel?

Yes, they are chrome racing mirrors, FF4 is not high impact. Still rare, looks like 1 of 545 built.

DeltaV · Dec 12, 2020

Triplegreen500 said:
Hi, still learning my "new" Charger 500 here. Fender tag and broadcast sheet both show FF4 paint on both body and roof. No V1F green vinyl top. Fender tag also shows M31 body belt moldings, which (I think?) are the stainless trim at the bottom of the vinyl roof? Did any Chargers have M31 with a steel roof? Or, does M31 mean that yes, it had a vinyl top from the factory?

View attachment 1039026

Here's the first odd part - as you can see, it has what appears to be an original vinyl top.

View attachment 1039028

Looks like original cut, original material, original vintage/wear, and original color.

But.

As you can also see, the Charger emblems are in the wrong place - about 1" too high, and about 2" too far back. Both sides - they match each other, and they're both wrong. I see no signs of them having been 'moved' - no dents, no divots, can't feel anything through the vinyl (how did the emblems attach - to the vinyl? Or to tabs embedded in the roof?). And, the large spot above the rear window where the vinyl is pulling away? Certainly has FF4 green paint underneath (I thought vinyl top cars had unpainted roof panels?).

I have the original bill of sale for the car, and there is no mention of a dealer-installed top.

I'm stumped. Anyone have any guesses? I'm waiting for my title to arrive, so I can scan it and send it, along with the fender tag image, and broadcast sheet image, and car images, to Galen to see what he thinks...

Also (unrelated) - is the black panel above the taillights and below the trunklid, supposed to be black on a 1970 500? Or should it be green?

Lots of helpful and knowledgeable folks here on FBBO, but checkout this registry:

http://www.1970chargerregistry.com/

Production figures:

http://1970chargerregistry.com/production.html

and '70 Charger Registry statistics here:

http://www.1970chargerregistry.com/mboard/index.php?topic=5873.0

Good folks over at the Registry too, just fewer postings.

69Coronetrt · Dec 12, 2020

Triplegreen500 said:
By "body side molding" I assume you mean the black plastic stick-on anti-ding strip...I know that isn't factory, and I need to figure out how to remove it without removing paint (the adhesive is like cement at this point; there are no hardware attachment points, its all adhesive).

I have already decoded my fender tag, hence my confusion compared to what it says, and what physically sits in my garage. My main questions are:

1. how does the car have a vinyl top with zero reference to vinyl on the build sheet and fender tag
2. did they build painted-top cars with the stainless trim at the base of the roof, or does that M31 code for body belt moldings, indicate that it DID have a vinyl top when it was built even though there is no V1F for green vinyl roof? Or, was there some sort of "outsource" program where cars were sent to a factory-authorized shop to have the tops put on, and the M31 was the extent of the factory involvement?

...and, I guess, 3. how are the Charger emblems in the wrong place? Do I have four empty holes (potential leak points) under that top somewhere that I couldn't feel?

Yes, they are chrome racing mirrors, FF4 is not high impact. Still rare, looks like 1 of 545 built.

1. After factory add on. V1* Would code on the tag and BS.
2. M31 upper door belt molding standard on XP with and without V1*

So...add is well. Nothing is odd or out of the ordinary.

The vinyl top and door ding moldings are after factory add ons. Not uncommon nor a big deal. They are owner preferred modifications. We see it all the time.

R413 · Dec 12, 2020

M31 belt mouldings are by the side glass and connect to the drip,rail mouldings. They are not vinyl top mouldings.

This is so easy, and you are making it so difficult. Clear your head, sit down and relax!

The top was added. PERIOD! What is the best way to finish it off a vinyl top? Go buy the factory moulding and put them on. Or go the the wrecking yard and get some mouldings, plenty of these cars were junked back in the day.

So yes you potentially have holes under you top that are unused. They forgot to mark the emblem holes And couldn’t find them so the drilled their own, or glued the emblems to the vinyl.

That black body side moulding is going to leave a mark, it will not come off clean. It will peel paint. It will have blocked the sun And the paint job has faded/ deteriorated so you will have a brighter green stripe down the side of the car.

Triplegreen500 · Dec 12, 2020

The top, I'll keep. I'm going to figure out how to moisturize it so it doesn't look like sandpaper (it is D-R-Y right now!), and how to seal it where it's already shrink-ripped so the shrinkage doesn't spread. I'd consider a new vinyl top, with emblems in the right place...but that's just not correct for THIS car.

The moldings...screw up the body lines. BIG time. And, they're about as straight as a drunk leaving a bar at 2am...so I'm going to figure out how to remove them without damaging the paint. Citrus, plastic scrapers...and a winter's worth of patience!

They're only original once - I REALLY don't want to paint this car. It is so true, so original, so...real. Stains and all (even though it's had one repaint already, probably in the 70s or 80s judging by the no-clearcoat lacquer paint). But I don't want those moldings to peel the paint off.

Triplegreen500 · Dec 12, 2020

OK, so M31 is the stainless molding that goes under the side windows, from the drip rails forward? That clears that up.

I'm not making this difficult - I get that it was apparently added. I've owned the car for a whopping 9 days, I'm still excited about owning it (the honeymoon is NOT over yet!), and I want to learn. That's all. It's not like I can drive it right now - it won't leave my property while there's salt on the roads, and if the weather is correct we're set to get about 20" of snow on Weds...so it'll be "pick at the details and fix all the little annoying crap in the garage" for the winter...

69Coronetrt · Dec 12, 2020

Triplegreen500 said:
OK, so M31 is the stainless molding that goes under the side windows, from the drip rails forward? That clears that up.

I'm not making this difficult - I get that it was apparently added. I've owned the car for a whopping 9 days, .......

Correct. Top of door moldings.

Rhetorical question...Why do people ask these questions AFTER they buy a car?????

Triplegreen500 · Dec 12, 2020

I was happy to have found a 3-green '70 after looking for 40+ years for the right car (my mother had a triple-green 500 she bought new in '70...and my cousin totaled it in '75). I did the basic checks - solid, straight, good condition, no major flaws - and bought it. Whether it had original muffler bearings or blinker fluid didn't factor into my purchase decision, but it does matter for life with the car, and maintenance. Now...I'm sorting out the details. If I change anything or repair anything, I want to make sure I put it back to correct. That's all.

Ray70Chrg · Dec 12, 2020

To answer your unrelated question at the end of post #1. That area around the tail lights should be green, ff4, in your case. Someone in the past just added their personal touch to it by painting it black. The '68 models had black on that panel I think.

Richard Cranium · Dec 12, 2020

Ray70Chrg said:
To answer your unrelated question at the end of post #1. That area around the tail lights should be green, ff4, in your case. Someone in the past just added their personal touch to it by painting it black. The '68 models had black on that panel I think.

The back end was painted more like a '69 Charger.

70 Charger 500 survivor, shows FF4 body FF4 roof...but has vinyl?

Triplegreen500

FBBO Gold Member

chargervert

Well-Known Member

R413

Well-Known Member

chargervert

Well-Known Member

DeltaV

Endeavor to persevere

chargervert

Well-Known Member

Michael_

FBBO Gold Member

Triplegreen500

FBBO Gold Member

DeltaV

Endeavor to persevere

69Coronetrt

Well-Known Member

R413

Well-Known Member

Triplegreen500

FBBO Gold Member

Triplegreen500

FBBO Gold Member

69Coronetrt

Well-Known Member

Triplegreen500

FBBO Gold Member

Ray70Chrg

Well-Known Member

Richard Cranium

FBBO Gold Member

Similar threads