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Correct installation of green axle bearings.

RJRENTON said:
As a matter of fact I do....Timken, stock ticker symbol TKR, has been in business for 120 years, pays a decent dividend and is selling for $ 76.00/share and paying 2% quarterly. Timken also produces specialized steels for other applications other than bearing production. Their product is superior to the Green style bearing, presently made by Bearing Technologies and marketed by several suppliers, including Mosur Engineering. I've asked several times as to the numbers on the Green bearing sassembly (not the MO400 number) to be able to check the bearings published design criteria capabilities....I guess I'll have to break down and buy one to see.
Its fun to poke the hornets nest occasionly, to see the proponents acclaim/proclaim the bearing's benefits. And I'll keep providing a rebuttal as to why I won't use them on my car, maybe as vehemently as those that do....
But...it all comes down to the car's owner....to each his own....
BOB RENTON
Click to expand...

You need to write to all of the auto manufacturers of the last 20 plus years and tell them your grievances. They've been using sealed roller and ball bearings in all of their makes and models. Even front wheel drive vehicles with all of that side load when going into turns. Guess what a 2500 Dodge truck with a Dana rear uses...roller bearings. Imagine that!

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the original taypered on these vehicles. It's what Ma designed for and it works great. If I owned another Mopar that all was original, it's what I would use to replace a bad bearing.

What I'm trying to get across to you and anyone else that disagrees with using Green bearings is that they do have their place in the automotive world and there isn't a damn thing wrong with using them. Green Bearing had a bad batch years ago and it was immediately corrected. That's what so many have heard about Green bearings and they won't let go of it. If you're getting into the scientific tech about them, there's not enough data under their current use to be saying that they're no good.

You said it "To each his own" (See you next time someone mentions Green Bearing) :poke:
 
Sorry KK, I'm not much of a fan either..
trailblazerrepairsnov2013 007.JPG
trailblazerrepairsnov2013 018.JPG
 
What are we looking at?
 
Roller bearings in modern vehicles. Get tired of changing front hubs. This was my D-in-laws. Only thing holding her wheel assembly on was, thankfully, her front mounted caliper.
 
Tucson Differential talked me out of green bearings. Their take is it is worth the extra 10 minutes to set up the Timken bearings. He said for some drag racers he might go green bearings, but for the street driven car he wants it stock. Odd he recommends 0.06 end play as the FSM says double that, but I set it for exactly 0.06.
Having said that I have three A Body friends running green bearings for many years without an issue.
 
dadsbee said:
Roller bearings in modern vehicles. Get tired of changing front hubs. This was my D-in-laws. Only thing holding her wheel assembly on was, thankfully, her front mounted caliper.
Click to expand...

No apology necessary. Looks like quite a bit of moisture was getting into that hub. That would destroy any bearing that the seals didn't hold up on. There's inferior bearings out there just like any product. It's a trial and error thing to find a good manufacturer these days.

I've replaced both of my front bearings on my 05 Sebring now. That was around 80k and at the current 150k I'm hearing a slight noise from the front again. I don't think that's too bad for what they go through. These suppose to be throw away cars anyway. My 180k 2500 is still holding up :)
 
https://www.carid.com/articles/wheel-bearings.html#Types_Of_Bearing_Designs_Used_On_Front_Wheel_Hubs
Plenty of detailed info available on line for those that want to research the facts for themselves. Do you think that the reason that certain parts were used in the past is because the engineers were not as smart as they are today ? Modern cars are generally lighter in weight and are not designed with many "service able" parts. Just Sub assemblies that are quick and cheapo to replace. Durability is not important in the modern " recycle it" society. Low Cost (cheap) and ease of replacement (no special training needed so labor is cheaper) is what is important these days. Takes less time (money$$) to replace than diagnose a problem. Parts are Cheap (quality) labor is expen$ive. How many cars made in the last 10 years will be around 40-50 years from now to restore ?? Not very many, I think.
The Green bearing is most often used for convenience ( no maintenance possible) easy to install, not because it is a superior product.
Drag racing is in a straight line, not much of a side load put on the bearings and only for a few seconds at a time. Disc brakes are not required on the rear as the majority of the braking forces have and always will be on the front axle. In over 30 plus years in auto repair service the average front disc pad replacement to rear lining ratio is 2 1/2 to 4 :1 30% or less of your braking is with the rear brakes. Disc really unnecessary. Why so many 4 wheel disc today ? Simple. on a mass production scale, there are fewer parts and lower cost of typical rear disc brake components today. Economy not necessity drives the manufacturers. $5. per car times millions of cars = more $$$ profit.
 
RJRENTON said:
As a matter of fact I do....Timken, stock ticker symbol TKR, has been in business for 120 years, pays a decent dividend and is selling for $ 76.00/share and paying 2% quarterly. Timken also produces specialized steels for other applications other than bearing production. Their product is superior to the Green style bearing, presently made by Bearing Technologies and marketed by several suppliers, including Mosur Engineering. I've asked several times as to the numbers on the Green bearing assembly (not the MO400 number) to be able to check the bearings published design criteria capabilities....I guess I'll have to break down and buy one to see.
Its fun to poke the hornets nest occasionaly, to see the proponents acclaim/proclaim the bearing's benefits. And I'll keep providing a rebuttal as to why I won't use them on my car, maybe as vehemently as those that do....
But...it all comes down to the car's owner....to each his own....
BOB RENTON
Click to expand...
Yeah, I make no argument as to which is better. I simply wanted to know some specifics of green bearing installation.
In the back of my mind the tapered roller bearing is better. The green bearing is simply the bearing the the man (that died) rebuilding my rear had purchased and he recommended it even as I countered his recommendation. Heck, I have a 54 Chevy truck that has been converted from "ball" bearings to tapered bearings on the front spindle/axles. All forums, articles recommend getting those weak ball bearings out of those trucks. Now here I am taking tapered bearings (that were bad of course) out of the GTX and putting in ball bearings. This debacle (involving this man that died) has been going on for around 9 months now. That's the bearing in my hands and I'm ready to finish this.
The (hrdnox) in my "stage" name means "hard knocks" which is exactly how I seem to learn everything.
I'm sure there's one lesson or another coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks to all that took time for the guidance and recommendations.
 
Last question if anyone is looking. On my 489 case I had the sure grip installed. Does anyone know of an additive
that is supposed to be added because of the sure grip or just put in the standard gear oil???
Hope I don't start something here.
 
Yes - there's a sure grip additive necessary mopar, or some have used GM/Ford posi additive. I put in GM my last go around.
 
Here's a pic of the additive

Sure Grip Add.jpg
 
My diff guy uses Motorcraft additive.
FSM says 8 pints, but mine took 9 pints gear oil even with additive.
 
khryslerkid said:
You need to write to all of the auto manufacturers of the last 20 plus years and tell them your grievances. They've been using sealed roller and ball bearings in all of their makes and models. Even front wheel drive vehicles with all of that side load when going into turns. Guess what a 2500 Dodge truck with a Dana rear uses...roller bearings. Imagine that!

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the original taypered on these vehicles. It's what Ma designed for and it works great. If I owned another Mopar that all was original, it's what I would use to replace a bad bearing.

What I'm trying to get across to you and anyone else that disagrees with using Green bearings is that they do have their place in the automotive world and there isn't a damn thing wrong with using them. Green Bearing had a bad batch years ago and it was immediately corrected. That's what so many have heard about Green bearings and they won't let go of it. If you're getting into the scientific tech about them, there's not enough data under their current use to be saying that they're no good.

You said it "To each his own" (See you next time someone mentions Green Bearing) :poke:
Click to expand...

With regard to your first statment, re your Dodge axle bearings are roller bearings...ok...but Green bearings are ball bearings NOT roller bearings...there is a distinct difference....like equating apples and oranges.

With regard to the statment about manufacturers using sealed ball and roller bearings in their front drive assemblies, the most commonly used bearing assembly is a sealed DUPLEX ANGULAR CONTACT ball bearing, which is distinctly different than the sealed single row ball bearing Green bearing. The duplex angular contact bearing is designed for both radial and AXIAL loads, simultaneously applied (within the bearings design limitations).
Perhaps, as a proponent of the Green Bearings, you could supply the necessary DESIGN information that equates or defines the Green bearing parameters opposed to the Timken Tapered bearing, to once and for all, put the discussion/argument/war, to rest as to which bearing is "best".... but maybe the whole thing is just rhetoric. BTW..I look forward to the next discussion as well......
BOB RENTON
 
RJRENTON said:
With regard to your first statment, re your Dodge axle bearings are roller bearings...ok...but Green bearings are ball bearings NOT roller bearings...there is a distinct difference....like equating apples and oranges.
Click to expand...

They are not taypered bearings like once used. Why did they change to them? I know the difference between ball and roller.

RJRENTON said:
Perhaps, as a proponent of the Green Bearings, you could supply the necessary DESIGN information that equates or defines the Green bearing parameters opposed to the Timken Tapered bearing,
Click to expand...

I've already made my statement about the two in post #81.

Ron H said:
Well there ya go, as mentioned could use mopar, gm, or ford. Haven't tried ford yet and heard happy things about it as you say. Next go around will try that..
Click to expand...

Cass aka Dr. Diff told me they did some testing on the different friction modifiers on the market and the Ford came out on top for longevity. That's why he recommends it. And sells it.
 
If only the worst problems currently plaguing this country were which bearing to use on our Mopars!!
I hate to beat a dead horse but now I'm concerned about another aspect of the green bearing.
This occurred to me before the bearing was pressed on. I have included a picture for reference.
The internal seal of the bearing that rest upon the axle surface near the wheel studs: I couldn't help but add some
lubricant but it appears to me that eventually this is going to be dry rubber spinning on the axle. Without a fresh supply of lubricant constantly flowing around this seal it will eventually dry out. Here were go, school of hard knocks!!
I just sat, not jabbed a screwdriver pointing at the area I am talking about.
Any thoughts?

20201219_092420.jpg
 
The bearings are sealed - you can swab some bearing grease around it and in the axle opening where it will seat.
 
I'm on my 2nd set of green's. The 1st set maybe went 1,000 miles or so and as mentioned, could be I had a set of the infamous bad ones. I've got another 1,000 on the 2nd set, so far so good. If I had a do-over, I'd a just left the oem bearings on the car they were fine; but a good bud who knows his chit about cars prodded me to get them when was swapping out the gears. I really thought on this when going thru the BS of installing the 2nd set.
 
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