Any radiant heat guru's out there?

metaldad · Dec 30, 2020

mopar 3 B said:
If going to all the trouble of removing concrete (expensive stuff here right now like 160/yd) there are other flooring methods worth looking into.

like in slab radiant. :thumbsup:

stairs............ thats a very important consideration. the bottom step (your floor) 3+'' taller, affects whatever you call it - the stair rise/flow, where you plant your feet. you going to readjust each thread now? to even out the heights?

747mopar · Dec 30, 2020

mopar 3 B said:
If going to all the trouble of removing concrete (expensive stuff here right now like 160/yd) there are other flooring methods worth looking into.

Removing the concrete is a very unlikely option, just haven't 100% ruled it out yet. I poured a garage last summer, we were right around $105-115 a yard. Could be because we have no shortage of rock and sand queries nearby, several within 20 minutes of me?

747mopar · Dec 30, 2020

metaldad said:
like in slab radiant.
stairs............ thats a very important consideration. the bottom step (your floor) 3+'' taller, affects whatever you call it - the stair rise/flow, where you plant your feet. you going to readjust each thread now? to even out the heights?

Yes, I pointed out that I would be moving doors, stairs, etc all to accommodate the added height. There will be a spiral staircase, 4 flights to the dining area and 2 exterior doors

747mopar · Dec 31, 2020

If one were to go this route what would be the best method of fastening a hardwood floor to it without adding much thermal resistance?

493 Mike · Dec 31, 2020

I think you would add sleepers and nail the hardwood to them. Probably glue the sleepers to the concrete.
Mike

mopar 3 B · Dec 31, 2020

Looks like a good app for floating floors. Guess as mentioned cutting in sleepers may work.

Sprad · Dec 31, 2020

I just got into this Radiant Heat Thread. This is what I do for a living here in Santa Cruz, CA.
If you are on nat gas, which is cheap, you can think about not putting insulation down to heat the slab. Because the earth is a great heat sink, it will draw all the heat and the boiler will run and burn fuel. If you are on lp don’t do it!
Put down the insulation.
As far as the temp of the water, you can turn down the boiler temp depending on the brand of the boiler. Running a mixing valve is fine.
The flooring manufacturer should let you know what their floor is rated for. If too hot, it can shrink or warp. Can!?
Warmboard is a local company near me. Yes they are pricy, but it is a great product. The aluminum is thicker which means better heat transfer.
One thing you may consider is to float a layer of concrete over the foam and just do a finished concrete floor. Just staple the pex to the foam. Again, use the foam!
Contact me if you have other questions. A lot depends on where you live. Temps there, etc.

747mopar · Dec 31, 2020

Sprad said:
I just got into this Radiant Heat Thread. This is what I do for a living here in Santa Cruz, CA.
If you are on nat gas, which is cheap, you can think about not putting insulation down to heat the slab. Because the earth is a great heat sink, it will draw all the heat and the boiler will run and burn fuel. If you are on lp don’t do it!
Put down the insulation.
As far as the temp of the water, you can turn down the boiler temp depending on the brand of the boiler. Running a mixing valve is fine.
The flooring manufacturer should let you know what their floor is rated for. If too hot, it can shrink or warp. Can!?
Warmboard is a local company near me. Yes they are pricy, but it is a great product. The aluminum is thicker which means better heat transfer.
One thing you may consider is to float a layer of concrete over the foam and just do a finished concrete floor. Just staple the pex to the foam. Again, use the foam!
Contact me if you have other questions. A lot depends on where you live. Temps there, etc.

I really appreciate the input. I think I finally made up my mind to bite the bullet and purchase the Warmboard. I've been floating a lot of ideas, products and ways I could save $$ but when it comes right down to it Warmboard covers all of my concerns plus having a sample in hand I can see it's quality stuff. Every other option is either messy, eats up to much height, adds many hours and headaches to the process, doesn't lend itself nicely to hardwood or just isn't efficient.

I'm in eastern Ohio, pretty damn cold winters and heat with an outdoor wood boiler. The boiler (that doesn't boil) heats the water to 180 degrees which is pumped 150' to the home, through a side leg hot water heater then through a water to air heat exchanger that heats the whole house via being mounted in the propane furnace duct much like central A/C. The room I'm doing is a living room that was added to the home, it sits on a full foundation (extends below the frost line), has one whole 24' wall of glass, a huge stone fireplace and sits on a slab of concrete.... Chilly!! Lack of efficiency equals more labor!

My plans... I found a brand of foam that carries an R rating of 9.5 for 1.5" thickness, I'll use treated 2×4's on 16"-24" centers over a vapor barrier then fill the voids with the foam. From there fasten down the Warmboard and roll with it. For hot water I'll add 2 T's after the heat exchanger, add a circulating pump and mixing valve to control the floor temperatures. Should be pretty straight forward I hope.

Sprad · Dec 31, 2020

You can contact Warmboard and ask them what they recommend for insulation but it sounds to me like your idea will work great.
I love your boiler! That is awesome! I don’t see any of those around here so I guess you can’t turn down the temperature! . As long as you have wood to burn your fine.
Good luck! Sounds like your on the right track!

747mopar · Dec 31, 2020

Sprad said:
You can contact Warmboard and ask them what they recommend for insulation but it sounds to me like your idea will work great.
I love your boiler! That is awesome! I don’t see any of those around here so I guess you can’t turn down the temperature! . As long as you have wood to burn your fine.
Good luck! Sounds like your on the right track!

Funny thing is they all recommend 1/2", Warmboard suggest a 1/2" sound deadening board?? I think it's because overall height is a huge concern for most buyers but sound deadening board with a really poor R rating???

I think you can fudge the temp around but it's set where they recommend, too cool and the creosote builds up, much hotter and you boil off your water.

Sprad · Dec 31, 2020

Very true! A basic mixing valve will work fine. Just remember to put a temp gauge after it to easily set the temp. Some valves have one built in.
Your right about the sound dampening. Maybe because of thermal expansion? Again, I think your on the right track.
In your area you may consider running glycol just in case of freezing. We don’t worry about that out here. . I know! CA sucks! I agree! I’m not from here.

Again, this is all my opinion and I hope to not be classified in a poor light.
Good luck!

747mopar · Jan 1, 2021

Sprad said:
Very true! A basic mixing valve will work fine. Just remember to put a temp gauge after it to easily set the temp. Some valves have one built in.
Your right about the sound dampening. Maybe because of thermal expansion? Again, I think your on the right track.
In your area you may consider running glycol just in case of freezing. We don’t worry about that out here. . I know! CA sucks! I agree! I’m not from here.

Again, this is all my opinion and I hope to not be classified in a poor light.
Good luck!

I always appreciate a little input/advice :thumbsup:

We don't run any glycol, if it's freezing temperatures outside the boiler is running with the water cycling constantly so zero chance of freezing. It's a very simple setup, I've got a Taco pump in the garage and the house that monitors the water temperature, if the demand goes up dropping the return water temperature the pumps speed up up until the return water is at the set temp. As far as heating goes the thermostat turns the furnace blower on just like any other furnace, the only difference is the water is constantly flowing through the exchanger. Being a gasifier unit (very efficient) it will go 24 hours on a load if it's not to cold.

mopar 3 B · Jan 1, 2021

Yes the moving water will not freeze trick. Do you have a backup pump? That and if everything out side the house is below frost line there is little chance of anything freezing anyway.

747mopar · Jan 1, 2021

mopar 3 B said:
Yes the moving water will not freeze trick. Do you have a backup pump? That and if everything out side the house is below frost line there is little chance of anything freezing anyway.

No backup pump, I figure if the one goes out in the house I'll rob the one from the garage in a pinch but they're readily available. The manufacturer only recommends burying the plumbing 1', I went 3' for the added insulation lol. I was told by a guy that he put one in during the winter and just laid the plumbing on top of the ground until the ground thawed out, he claims the snow didn't even melt off of it.... really impressive stuff!

Duda · Jan 3, 2021

747mopar said:
I'm looking at adding radiant heat to an existing slab then hardwood flooring... tons of options with prices from inexpensive to through the roof. Plan so far is add foam on top of the slab then secure a wood heat panel, either homemade or something like Ecowarm or Warmboard $$$$. Not much info out there on side by side comparisons.

I have a existing build that was built by someone else who did not insulate the ground and never finished the job. I had one company come in and install the boiler and all the plumbing for the lines in the floor. It never worked correctly and I had them come back a dozen times. I finally hired this guy
http://pittsburghradiant.com/ and we removed the current boiler and installed a larger one. I would guess installing this on top of your current floor might raise the floor 6”. I have 3 large truck garages and the heated floor system is by far the nicest to work in and even to visit, you can tell the difference. Pitt radiant treated me good and fixed the problem. We also dug around the building and insulated the sides in the ground with 1” foam hoping to save the heat from escaping. Once you have a building with radiant floor heat you don’t want anything else. Check out the website with all his photos and give him a call, he is a great individual. This building I have the heat in is 45 x 70 x 25’ ceilings and it’s so comfortable in there. We set the heat at 60.
Good luck and let me know if you need anything else.
Happy New Year.

747mopar · Jan 3, 2021

Duda said:
I have a existing build that was built by someone else who did not insulate the ground and never finished the job. I had one company come in and install the boiler and all the plumbing for the lines in the floor. It never worked correctly and I had them come back a dozen times. I finally hired this guy
http://pittsburghradiant.com/ and we removed the current boiler and installed a larger one. I would guess installing this on top of your current floor might raise the floor 6”. I have 3 large truck garages and the heated floor system is by far the nicest to work in and even to visit, you can tell the difference. Pitt radiant treated me good and fixed the problem. We also dug around the building and insulated the sides in the ground with 1” foam hoping to save the heat from escaping. Once you have a building with radiant floor heat you don’t want anything else. Check out the website with all his photos and give him a call, he is a great individual. This building I have the heat in is 45 x 70 x 25’ ceilings and it’s so comfortable in there. We set the heat at 60.
Good luck and let me know if you need anything else.
Happy New Year.

Here's the prep work before we poured my garage addition, 2" under the pad and 6" around the perimeter. This is mostly a storage area but will double as a paint booth which is why I added the radiant floor heat. Unfortunately when I built my home I hadn't even heard of radiant floors. Thanks for the input, I'd like to find someone that really knows it inside in out but with me doing it myself most don't care to talk, understandably so I guess.

Duda · Jan 3, 2021

747mopar said:
Here's the prep work before we poured my garage addition, 2" under the pad and 6" around the perimeter. This is mostly a storage area but will double as a paint booth which is why I added the radiant floor heat. Unfortunately when I built my home I hadn't even heard of radiant floors. Thanks for the input, I'd like to find someone that really knows it inside in out but with me doing it myself most don't care to talk, understandably so I guess.View attachment 1049705

Call that guy Bob Blair mobile 724-316-3405. He is very easy to talk with. Who would think he wanted to help me but he did. He even drove out and did a pre inspection, at that point why would he get involved as the job was a mess. Maybe you can supplies from him and get the free info.

Any radiant heat guru's out there?

metaldad

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