493 stroker question

furyus · Feb 5, 2021

What is a good stroker kit to buy? I like the idea of getting the whole rotating assembly, with everything matched. This is a 440 based engine. Thank.

diesel_lv · Feb 5, 2021

I have the 440 Source 496 in my 383. Have no complaints. I also used their heads and had them ported by Muscle Motors. Followed the "Mopar for the Masses" build but used a hydraulic roller cam instead. On the stand, dyno at 610hp n 670tq. This is a purely street driven car. Only issue w big stroke engines is cylinder wear over time. But this kit was bolt in other than normal block machining. Others may question "built in USA", I don't have a problem with this kit at all.

furyus · Feb 5, 2021

diesel_lv said:
I have the 440 Source 496 in my 383. Have no complaints. I also used their heads and had them ported by Muscle Motors. Followed the "Mopar for the Masses" build but used a hydraulic roller cam instead. On the stand, dyno at 610hp n 670tq. This is a purely street driven car. Only issue w big stroke engines is cylinder wear over time. But this kit was bolt in other than normal block machining. Others may question "built in USA", I don't have a problem with this kit at all.

Thanks for the reply. I'm curious about your hydraulic roller cam. What did you do about the cam button, and any other info.

diesel_lv · Feb 5, 2021

furyus said:
Thanks for the reply. I'm curious about your hydraulic roller cam. What did you do about the cam button, and any other info.

I had to use 12 point bolts w very small shoulder for the cam gear and used a nylon cam button. Put modeling clay on hole where button goes and put on cover w no sealer, torqued to spec, removed and measured clay. Ground cam button down to spec based on measurement from clay. I also used 440 Source stamped cover as it is thicker and rigid enough not to flex when cam is under load pushing forward. I used the Comp Cams Extreme Energy 230/236 cam n retrofit roller lifters. Had to measure for new pushrods. It idles at 15" vacuum in park n 13" in drive at 850 rpm. A lot of expense in hydraulic roller. The same cam in hydraulic flat tappet will work just as well, just gotta make sure you get it broke in w high zinc oil.

wagonman · Feb 5, 2021

My kit from 440 Source 470 in a 400 block came with Icon pistons, Scat rods and Total seal file fit rings. The crank is offshore> All balanced and ready to go.

zyzzyx · Feb 5, 2021

At the risk of being disliked, I will try and explain why a big block Mopar NEVER
needs a cam button. I don't know who started this useless idea, probably a Chevy
guy that decided to build a 440. If you look at the direction of rotation of the crank
shaft you will see that the crank drives the cam, which is pinned to the block by the
direction of the helical teeth cut in the cam. Besides this, the cam is also driving
the auxiliary shaft which drives the distributor and the oil pump. All of these things
are a load on the cam, sprockets, and chain. There is no physical way for the cam
to ever move forward when it is engaged with the auxiliary shaft. Just can't happen!
Save your hours of labor and don't waste your time with a cam button on a Big
Block Mopar. Thank You!

diesel_lv · Feb 5, 2021

zyzzyx said:
At the risk of being disliked, I will try and explain why a big block Mopar NEVER
needs a cam button. I don't know who started this useless idea, probably a Chevy
guy that decided to build a 440. If you look at the direction of rotation of the crank
shaft you will see that the crank drives the cam, which is pinned to the block by the
direction of the helical teeth cut in the cam. Besides this, the cam is also driving
the auxiliary shaft which drives the distributor and the oil pump. All of these things
are a load on the cam, sprockets, and chain. There is no physical way for the cam
to ever move forward when it is engaged with the auxiliary shaft. Just can't happen!
Save your hours of labor and don't waste your time with a cam button on a Big
Block Mopar. Thank You!View attachment 1064956 View attachment 1064957

Won't hate. I'm just going by what the writers of "Big Block Mopar Performance" book wrote for installing a roller cam. A flat tappet cam lobes have a very slight angle so the lifters rotate and this angle also keeps the cam back, roller cam lobes are flat. I'm not an engineer n definitely didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, just following the suggestion of those who wrote the book.

zyzzyx · Feb 5, 2021

Well, I'm a retired Machinist who has been tinkering with these things for a long time and
did some drag racing in my last life. All kinds of hair brain ideas have been put out there
over the years for racers and most are good, but some are bad, or in this case a non issue.
I've seen a popular guy on YouTube even have a video explaining how to put Cam Button
on a 440 and when I wrote him a personal message to call him out about it he explained
that it was just a general video that was pertaining to alot of different engines. I'm just
trying to help people on this forum that are mis-informed. I scour this forum because I
am still learning from everyone here while restoring my own car. Just hope this helps!

451Mopar · Feb 6, 2021

furyus said:
What is a good stroker kit to buy? I like the idea of getting the whole rotating assembly, with everything matched. This is a 440 based engine. Thank.

Any reason you want the 493" (4.150" crank) compared to the 505" (4.250" crank)?
The 4.25" stroke crank with the 2.20" rods fits just as well (if not better) than the 4.15" crank with the 2.375" rods.
The 440 source kits are decent for the money. For a basic street/strip type build, their balancing should be OK.
Last 505 kit I had with the lightweight crank the worst case would have been about +/- 3 grams?
By pairing the light and heavy rod large ends on each crank throw, and matching the slight difference in piston/pin weights to the rod small end, my measured / calculated bob weight came out to 2217.3 grams, and the 440 source crank card shows they used 2216.6 gram bob weight.

Looking to save some money, I recently bought a unbalanced kit from a different place, and with having my machine shop balance the assembly, there was not much difference in overall cost.
The 440 source 9-way adjustable timing set is pretty nice. Cam button not really a big deal, use the 12-point ARP bolts makes it easier.
The bronze gear oil pump drive for roller cam use is the most wear prone part?
Disassemble and clean the new oil pump. There was alot of shavings inside the pump.

furyus · Feb 6, 2021

451Mopar said:
Any reason you want the 493" (4.150" crank) compared to the 505" (4.250" crank)?
The 4.25" stroke crank with the 2.20" rods fits just as well (if not better) than the 4.15" crank with the 2.375" rods.
The 440 source kits are decent for the money. For a basic street/strip type build, their balancing should be OK.
Last 505 kit I had with the lightweight crank the worst case would have been about +/- 3 grams?
By pairing the light and heavy rod large ends on each crank throw, and matching the slight difference in piston/pin weights to the rod small end, my measured / calculated bob weight came out to 2217.3 grams, and the 440 source crank card shows they used 2216.6 gram bob weight.

Looking to save some money, I recently bought a unbalanced kit from a different place, and with having my machine shop balance the assembly, there was not much difference in overall cost.
The 440 source 9-way adjustable timing set is pretty nice. Cam button not really a big deal, use the 12-point ARP bolts makes it easier.
The bronze gear oil pump drive for roller cam use is the most wear prone part?
Disassemble and clean the new oil pump. There was alot of shavings inside the pump.

Thanks. This is what i need. I was looking at the Hughes website, and that's what they offered. I was also wondering about 440 source, and is their quality good. I'm trying to plan this build before spending the money, since it won't be cheap.

dcala84141 · Feb 7, 2021

diesel_lv said:
I have the 440 Source 496 in my 383. Have no complaints. I also used their heads and had them ported by Muscle Motors. Followed the "Mopar for the Masses" build but used a hydraulic roller cam instead. On the stand, dyno at 610hp n 670tq. This is a purely street driven car. Only issue w big stroke engines is cylinder wear over time. But this kit was bolt in other than normal block machining. Others may question "built in USA", I don't have a problem with this kit at all.

I to followed “ Mopar for the masses “ for my 383, but instead went for the 450 kit from 440 source, but went with a thumper roller cam (which I’m going to change) but I only got 527hp. And About 550tq
Wondering how u got your #’s with a cam under 500 lift ( unless I’m reading it wrong )
Thanks

IQ52 · Feb 7, 2021

zyzzyx said:
Well, I'm a retired Machinist who has been tinkering with these things for a long time and
did some drag racing in my last life. All kinds of hair brain ideas have been put out there
over the years for racers and most are good, but some are bad, or in this case a non issue.
I've seen a popular guy on YouTube even have a video explaining how to put Cam Button
on a 440 and when I wrote him a personal message to call him out about it he explained
that it was just a general video that was pertaining to alot of different engines. I'm just
trying to help people on this forum that are mis-informed. I scour this forum because I
am still learning from everyone here while restoring my own car. Just hope this helps!

Have you personally used a roller cam in a B engine without a cam button?

zyzzyx · Feb 7, 2021

No sir, I haven't, but if you look at the pictures that I provided you can see that if
the cam tries to move off of the thrust face of the block, it would have to shear the
teeth off of the auxiliary shaft. Looking at the front of the engine, the rotation is
clock-wise. The distributor and the oil pump are trying to slow down the cam and
because there is a helical gear on both cam and auxiliary shaft, the cam is always
thrusted to the back of the engine.

diesel_lv · Feb 7, 2021

dcala84141 said:
I to followed “ Mopar for the masses “ for my 383, but instead went for the 450 kit from 440 source, but went with a thumper roller cam (which I’m going to change) but I only got 527hp. And About 550tq
Wondering how u got your #’s with a cam under 500 lift ( unless I’m reading it wrong )
Thanks

Well, add 46 cubic inches, if you look up cam I listed, it's .541 intake n .537 exhaust lift. Hydraulic roller cam. Also had the heads done "at" Muscle Motors, same guys who built that engine.

dcala84141 · Feb 7, 2021

diesel_lv said:
Well, add 46 cubic inches, if you look up cam I listed, it's .541 intake n .537 exhaust lift. Hydraulic roller cam. Also had the heads done "at" Muscle Motors, same guys who built that engine.

My heads are also CNC
I quest I’m losing hp and tq more than I thought with that cam selection my engine builder used ( way to much overlap )

andyf · Feb 7, 2021

furyus said:
What is a good stroker kit to buy? I like the idea of getting the whole rotating assembly, with everything matched. This is a 440 based engine. Thank.

Best combo for a 440 block is a 505 which consists of a 4.250 stroke crank with 2.200 rod journals, 7.100 long Chevy rods and then matching pistons with the correct compression ratio for your use. To figure out the compression ratio you'll need to know which cylinder heads you'll be using. You may or may not be able to find a kit that fits the bill since it will depend on which cylinder heads you plan to use. For this project to come out correctly you need to work with someone who knows what they are doing. I'd highly recommend you find a good machine shop in your local area and work with them. Asking the internet to help you build an engine is about as good of an idea as asking the internet to help you perform surgery.

diesel_lv · Feb 7, 2021

dcala84141 said:
My heads are also CNC
I quest I’m losing hp and tq more than I thought with that cam selection my engine builder used ( way to much overlap )

I wanted torque more than anything. Super low end torque. Their build did that so I went w the roller cam that closest resembled their hydraulic flat tappet. My numbers are almost identical to theirs just up in proportion to the cubic inches. As for hp/tq differences, cam of course is gonna play a part, but so is each dyno. Some read a little high, some a little low.

dcala84141 · Feb 7, 2021

diesel_lv said:
I wanted torque more than anything. Super low end torque. Their build did that so I went w the roller cam that closest resembled their hydraulic flat tappet. My numbers are almost identical to theirs just up in proportion to the cubic inches. As for hp/tq differences, cam of course is gonna play a part, but so is each dyno. Some read a little high, some a little low.

My peak tq 528 is at 4800
Peak hp 527 is at 5700
I think that thumper cam which is also a roller cam is really hurting what my numbers should be

dcala84141 · Feb 7, 2021

My buddy is building a 493 (440 block ) don’t know who’s kit he is using ( engine being built by shop here in N.Y.) all I know is that they are using Indy heads and they told him around 600 hp. and over 600 tq. Is the target

furyus · Feb 7, 2021

zyzzyx said:
At the risk of being disliked, I will try and explain why a big block Mopar NEVER
needs a cam button. I don't know who started this useless idea, probably a Chevy
guy that decided to build a 440. If you look at the direction of rotation of the crank
shaft you will see that the crank drives the cam, which is pinned to the block by the
direction of the helical teeth cut in the cam. Besides this, the cam is also driving
the auxiliary shaft which drives the distributor and the oil pump. All of these things
are a load on the cam, sprockets, and chain. There is no physical way for the cam
to ever move forward when it is engaged with the auxiliary shaft. Just can't happen!
Save your hours of labor and don't waste your time with a cam button on a Big
Block Mopar. Thank You!View attachment 1064956 View attachment 1064957

I love this kind of info. I read on a site that I needed a torrington bearing behind the timing set???

493 stroker question

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