Tremec 5 speed conversion in a 1970 Charger

HawkRod · Feb 8, 2021

Kern Dog said:
I have no yoke to turn the output shaft. I thought about this a few times because I have spare 904 and 727 yokes but certainly nothing to fit this Tremec.
Loosening the pressure plate sounded like a sure-fire fix but as stated, it just pushed the hydraulic bearing further to the rear when the clutch fingers expanded. That made forward movement of the trans now under spring pressure as well as the interference fit.
I wondered about "Tolerance stackup", a term that I have heard from Mopar Action magazine's Rick Ehrenberg. If the clutch was off center by a couple thousands by one direction and the bearing collar was off in the other direction, maybe the input shaft wasn't aligning properly, I don't know. If the car starts and moves without hard shifting or bearing noises, I'll be dang happy.

(I know the tranny is in now, but for future reference, perhaps for others)
Sometimes the splines do not line up perfectly, and once they touch they will stay misaligned since the input shaft spins. (In my experience, this seems more prevalent with 18 spline than 23 spline input shafts.) To avoid that, you can use an output shaft and spin it with the transmission in gear. This will allow the input shaft to spin slightly and engage with the clutch while you are pushing the transmission into place. But if you don't have an output shaft put the tranny in a forward gear and also reverse at the same time. This locks the input shaft. a slight twist of the transmission will do the same thing and allow the splines to align. Of course, you need to immediately "unlock" the transmission to finish installation.

watermelon · Feb 8, 2021

Kern...for the 500 mile break in...fill with Penzoil 3501 then change to the tremec fluid provided in the kit.

of all steps i missed that one and used the tremec stuff out of excitement. coulda saved a few dollars.

napa has the penzoil. summit has the replacement tremec fluid

https://www.summitracing.com/search...h&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=american tremec

watermelon

Phantomx · Feb 8, 2021

While you have your oil pan off for repair, see if the embossed sealing ribs are going across the indents in the pan rail causing it to not seal correctly. It seems those type of gaskets are made with flat machined surfaces in mind, not stamped sheet metal like the stock engine and auto trans pans.
Travis..

joe smith · Feb 8, 2021

Phantomx said:
While you have your oil pan off for repair, see if the embossed sealing ribs are going across the indents in the pan rail causing it to not seal correctly. It seems those type of gaskets are made with flat machined surfaces in mind, not stamped sheet metal like the stock engine and auto trans pans.
Travis..

Also make sure your not using gaskets that specify NO SEALER.... I watched a Fel Pro video recently that showed some of their gaskets require NO sealer.. Video said that sealer would act like grease and the gasket would tend to "slip" when tightening the bolts up.....

moparedtn · Feb 8, 2021

joe smith said:
Also make sure your not using gaskets that specify NO SEALER.... I watched a Fel Pro video recently that showed some of their gaskets require NO sealer.. Video said that sealer would act like grease and the gasket would tend to "slip" when tightening the bolts up.....

Squish factor!

Kern Dog · Feb 8, 2021

The exhaust is in.
In keeping with the "while I am here" theme, I pulled the RH header, cleaned then painted it.

Yeah, that is an oxygen sensor. NO, I do not have EFI, I haven't made that leap yet. Not sure if I ever will. The sensor is for the air/fuel gauge.

Kern Dog · Feb 8, 2021

The right side of the block was dirty and had some flaky paint so I cleaned it up.

Kern Dog · Feb 8, 2021

That dang oil pan though....

Oil leaks suck no matter the transmission but a leak with a manual trans can lead to a slipping clutch. I thought I had the oil pan leaks stopped when I put in this plastic windage tray as shown here:

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopa...indage-tray-gasket-with-a-4-15-stroke.181035/

I still have leaks. I'm going back to the gasket sandwich but THIS time, I'm using better gaskets and this sealant:

I ordered THIS windage tray:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-32005

Kern Dog · Feb 8, 2021

The exhaust is bolted up.
Back when I first pulled the 727 out, I thought that I was going to encounter some troubles. The 727 crossmember was modified and had a spool type transmission mount that was welded in a lot lower than stock.

I don't know for certain if the second picture has a correct mount for a 1970 model but the difference between the two mounts was
1 3/8". I didn't know if the Tremec would sit at the higher position or a little below it. I guess I could have measured the centerline of the output shaft to the underside of the floor but I didn't think of it. What I did do was measure the distance between the headers and the floor.

Kern Dog · Feb 8, 2021

Hmmmm...I guess I DID measure. Looks like I was approx 3" to the top of the housing end and 6" below it, doing the math I guess I was 4 1/2" to center.

Kern Dog · Feb 9, 2021

Now the Tremec:

4 and 1/8". The tail shaft sits up 3/8" higher than before. The RH header sat 2 3/8" from the floor as measured by the top header bolt. It now sits 1 7/8", a height increase of 1/2".
It is hard to get real accurate numbers here but here is where I am going with all of this:
I wondered if the change in height of the transmission and as a result, the angle of the engine and headers....Would the exhaust pipes bolt up without leaking? The change in angle is probably so slight, it shouldn't matter. Regardless, I did use these gaskets:

Kern Dog · Feb 9, 2021

The clearance to the right side of the bellhousing is tight!

I'm not sure of what I will do. I thought I'd have more room. All along, the RH header has just been pushed aside and left loose because of that one tube that is real close to the backwards bolt. The 727 bell was thinner here and clearance was not a problem. I am NOT pulling the transmission and bell and I don't want to pull the header again. The bolts at the head are mostly easy except for the second bolt from the front. I may see if I can tap on the tube with a flat, dull cold chisel and a hammer to get a good 1/4" clearance.

Kern Dog · Feb 9, 2021

watermelon said:
Kern...for the 500 mile break in...fill with Penzoil 3501 then change to the tremec fluid provided in the kit.
of all steps i missed that one and used the tremec stuff out of excitement. coulda saved a few dollars.
napa has the penzoil. summit has the replacement tremec fluid

Dang it...Too late, I filled it before I even installed the transmission.

In this section, they just state to put in the fluid, they didn't mention any alternative.

Later in the instructions on what may be the last page, they have this:

66 Sat · Feb 9, 2021

This thread has been great so far, not only in showing how to do the conversion, but also showing how hard it would be for the average backyard mechanic to do at home with the car on jackstands.
I'm excited to see it all finished, and also relieved that I didn't push ahead and try to convert my car, as I think this would be a 3-6 month job for me.
Good luck with the final stages, can't wait to see the video.

moparedtn · Feb 9, 2021

Agree with that premise for sure.
Yeah, it's a doable job without a lift, just using stands and such on the ground....
it's just not doable by me under those circumstances.

ct71rr · Feb 9, 2021

Nice work Kern! Happy to see you got the trans in there. Perseverance always pays off.

joe smith · Feb 9, 2021

I am watching this thread with interest as I will be updating a mustang ( inherited it) to be my daily driver. New 302, new Tremec 5 speed, and a new rear end..... I wanted to do the new 302 first, come back later with a Tremec, then update the 7.5 rear to a bolt in 9" at a later date, to try and spread the "spending" out....

I do not have a lift and at almost 66 I do not want to torture myself under the car.. So after watching Kerns install here, I will probably be installing the new 5 speed attached to the engine the same way I pulled it out...
Mustang is a 4speed SROD car so its going to be a much easier transformation ( SO MUCH MORE bolt in stuff for mustangs than dodges) and I am going to do a Tremec TKX..... Thanks for the lessons here....

joe smith · Feb 9, 2021

moparedtn said:
Agree with that premise for sure.
Yeah, it's a doable job without a lift, just using stands and such on the ground....
it's just not doable by me under those circumstances.

The older you get the less doable it becomes too...

ckessel · Feb 9, 2021

The older you get, the more creeper diving sucks.

747mopar · Feb 9, 2021

Kern Dog said:
Now the Tremec:

View attachment 1066713

4 and 1/8". The tail shaft sits up 3/8" higher than before. The RH header sat 2 3/8" from the floor as measured by the top header bolt. It now sits 1 7/8", a height increase of 1/2".
It is hard to get real accurate numbers here but here is where I am going with all of this:
I wondered if the change in height of the transmission and as a result, the angle of the engine and headers....Would the exhaust pipes bolt up without leaking? The change in angle is probably so slight, it shouldn't matter. Regardless, I did use these gaskets:

View attachment 1066715

That's good to hear, sounds like they did a better job then Keisler on height. Nice thing about tight clearances to the motor and transmission is the clearance doesn't change as they all move together... clearance to the body is where the rattles come in. A pry bar and some prying should get you what you need. As far as sealing up, I think you'll be alright if your using a gasket with some thickness. After blowing a few gaskets I switched to copper ones, they've been off and on many times and still seal.

Looking good :thumbsup:

Tremec 5 speed conversion in a 1970 Charger

Formerly hsorman

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I got your Staff Member riiiight heeeere...

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.

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I got your Staff Member riiiight heeeere...

Chad

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