Went back to a carb

rmchrgr said:

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with this. The Sniper is absolutely 'self learning' and does a pretty good job of it. Not sure what else there is to say other than it does what it's supposed to do. Obviously for the learn function to be optimal, you need to have everything working properly - no vacuum leaks, no fuel delivery issues, clean voltage, etc.

Frankly, there seems to be some straight up fear about EFI in general, like it's this crazy, new-fangled technology that only experts know how to manipulate. Or if you get it installed and make some unwitting change total mechanical meltdown will invariably occur at the worst possible time. If you know how to tune a carburetor, you can tune an EFI system, it's the same thing. In fact, I would almost say it's easier to deal with EFI because there's an interface providing real-time graphical data that you can see unlike a carb which is generally a pure trial-and-error process.

Second, there seem to be a lot of unrealistic expectations about how EFI is supposed to work, like it's some magic thing that will do all this great stuff without lifting a finger. Maybe that's the marketing, I don't know. I tend to ignore advertising copy because it's being written to sell you a product. That's been the same for go-fast parts since the dawn of time. Like the tag line for a TV ad that used to run here in the NY area for a certain clothing store - "an educated consumer is out best customer".

Beyond the initial purchase, what often gets misunderstood is that whatever system you are using learns a tune based on what the 02 is seeing. Essentially that means garbage in, garbage out. If you have a vacuum leak, that's more air and the ECU will compensate appropriately and richen up the mixture and it will keep doing it until you realize you have to fix the leak. In modern OBD2 cars, if something is out of whack, you get a code and check engine light. Our ancient vehicles clearly don't have that capability so in a sense you are flying a little blind. I recently fixed an exhaust leak on my car and although not dramatic, I could absolutely feel a change in the way the car drives. I didn't touch anything in the ECU but the learn tables changed to accommodate the new condition.

Also, when you first set it up, most novices (like me) rely on the wizard to get the car running. It's a generic state of tune that covers a wide variety of parameters. Case in point - the wizard idle target AFR is 12.0:1 WTF? Why do I need my idle so rich? Idling briefly in my garage (doors open) I could smell fuel and my eyes were burning. Did a little research and found something to try. Went back out to the handheld, changed the idle target AFR to 14.2:1 and it made a huge difference in idle and tip in behavior. One click, that was it.

And once you get familiar with logging data, you can start to see and interpret how changes at certain points can make a difference in how the car feels. With the Sniper you have the ability to load your own tune and replace the generic wizard settings to make it more tailored to your specific combo and driving habits. BTW, that's also where the Holley forums are beneficial - you can upload a file and you'll get people to look it over and offer advice. There's a couple guys on there that are very helpful including one of our better-known members.

I'm not at the point where I'm creating my own tune yet but so far my overall drivability has been OK so I've not had any real need to get that far into it.

Not trying to convince anyone that EFI is the be-all end-all but it does get frustrating to read about guys having problems and then the whole idea gets bashed. I don't know every problem situation but overall it appears the negativity has to do with skepticism and unrealistic expectations as opposed to working through problems.

At the dealership we used to call those guys parts changers. Car would come in with some vague problem, they'd have no idea what to do, do no testing, research etc. They figure they need to do something to get paid so they'd blame the PCM or something similar. A new one goes in, 2 days later the car is back with the same problem. Jeez, who knew?

There's no free lunch.

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CoronetDarter said:

I got to the point that I was pretty proficient at tuning. I wasn't data logging, but I was fattening up the mixture at one end and leaning it out at idle, etc. Mainly I was working on solving the hot start issue. And then the handheld died. The decision to abort and go back to a carb was about the reliability of the hardware. I lost confidence in FiTech's products and as a result was hesitant to drive the Coronet any long distances for fear of being stranded.
BTW, I've mentioned my neighbor a couple times in this thread; he's run the FiTech in his pickup truck for almost four years now. On Sunday I walked over to driveway because his hood was up. He was replacing a bad fuel injector. It was a 10 minute fix and it didn't strand him, but he was more than a little annoyed that he had to buy a fuel injector after only four years.

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monaco66coupe said:

my long time Mopar friend in Phoenix in the Mopar club has said numerous guys are ditching the EFI system, because they are getting tired of being broken down on the side of the road. esspecially when it is 110+ outside.
Very Interesting,,,

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joemish said:

Maybe next time have a professional install it.

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Car #4 said:

@Hilljack68 What engine do you have?

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Kern Dog said:

Maybe next time, you'll keep your piehole shut.

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