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SEALER or PRIMERS BEFORE BODYWORK

72satteldog

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SO i have my 72 sanded down to the point where i'm ready to start bodywork and filler process, my question is should i be spraying down a coat of sealer or primer first, there are parts of the sheet metal down to bare metal, the rest is down to original primer and paint where metal was in good shape, I have a couple of patches to complete yet but after that i'm at the filler stage, what do you think, this is my first crack at a complete body and paint job, thanks for any info
 
I coat all my metal with epoxy primer first........most fillers can be applied to epoxy or bare metal, so I don't worry about breaking through the epoxy.

dont waste your time with any other primers, epoxy is all you need both under, over, and in between fillers.

some epoxies don't sand well, I have found Southern Polyurethanes epoxy to be very user friendly and fairly priced.....read and follow the instructions
 
SO i have my 72 sanded down to the point where i'm ready to start bodywork and filler process, my question is should i be spraying down a coat of sealer or primer first, there are parts of the sheet metal down to bare metal, the rest is down to original primer and paint where metal was in good shape, I have a couple of patches to complete yet but after that i'm at the filler stage, what do you think, this is my first crack at a complete body and paint job, thanks for any info
Do not spray sealer first.
If anything if its a completely bare body and panels. Use epoxy primer. That will have to sit for sometime to dry prior to filler work. Make sure your panels are clean. No residues , oils etc.

You can prime. But that would be wasting material. Use that for your final preparation for highs and lows.
 
You will get a few opinions here, so here is mine:
Anyone's Epoxy, then bodywork, then sealer (I use the brand that matches the final coat paint I purchase).

RGAZ
 
Get your hammer and dolly / patch panel work out of the way first then shoot your epoxy to seal the metal, couple of coats will do for now. Then do your initial filler work and your blocking trying not to break thru the epoxy down to bare metal but if you do just re spray the epoxy. At this point I like to spray 2-3 coats of high build primer and then some more blocking with guide coats until you get the desired finish. If your initial filler/block work was done correctly this should be your last round of blocking. Then spray another couple of coats of some reduced epoxy to act as your final seal coat. This will also let you look for some fubars before your base coat since the panels are all one color (easier to see) if you notice any flaws or pin holes now is the time to address them with filler or glazing putty along with another coat of epoxy to re-seal that area. Let the epoxy dry a week or two and go over it wit some 800 grit paper and then again with some maroon scotchbright I like to go with a cross hatch motion. You should then be ready for your base/clear coat ( if your going that direction). Good luck and remember the cleaner you keep your panels between coats the better chance your paint will come out nice and have some longevity.
 
You will get a few opinions here, so here is mine:
Anyone's Epoxy, then bodywork, then sealer (I use the brand that matches the final coat paint I purchase).

RGAZ
that actually was going to be another question, about using the same product throughout the primer and paint process, i'm looking at using ppg products and i see alot of differing opinions on this matter on staying with one product
 
Epoxy brand is not as important, just use a brand name. Before you put that on though,
use 80 grit DA paper and wipe down with a wax & grease remover or prep cleaner.
Now you will have plenty of time to do all of your bodywork!
 
I’ll add that you should prep the surface with whatever the TDS of your specific product says. Also there is a difference between regular sandpaper and P grits.
 
that actually was going to be another question, about using the same product throughout the primer and paint process, i'm looking at using ppg products and i see alot of differing opinions on this matter on staying with one product

You may be opening a can of worms here, but here is my take on it....

For the first epoxy coat, it does not matter just use a good name brand. That is going to be your base and you are going to let that completely cure since you will do bodywork after.

After that, it mostly matters as you lay down the sealer, base, and clear if you do it in the recommended sequence before the previous coat fully cures. So, if you are going to seal, base, and clear back-to-back (like after flash etc.) they MUST be the same brand and compatible or else the chemistry will cause problems. This is not necessarily true if you let each layer cure, scuff, and continue. (oh man, some people are going to get on my case, I can feel it). So, the best advice is to just stay with one brand that has proven compatibility between layers. That way, you have your coating options wide open and the chance of a chemistry problem is eliminated.

But for the record, I have sprayed Nason base with a Kirker clear without long-term problems (my friends car). I just don't recommend it if you don't have to.

RGAZ
 
You may be opening a can of worms here, but here is my take on it....

For the first epoxy coat, it does not matter just use a good name brand. That is going to be your base and you are going to let that completely cure since you will do bodywork after.

After that, it mostly matters as you lay down the sealer, base, and clear if you do it in the recommended sequence before the previous coat fully cures. So, if you are going to seal, base, and clear back-to-back (like after flash etc.) they MUST be the same brand and compatible or else the chemistry will cause problems. This is not necessarily true if you let each layer cure, scuff, and continue. (oh man, some people are going to get on my case, I can feel it). So, the best advice is to just stay with one brand that has proven compatibility between layers. That way, you have your coating options wide open and the chance of a chemistry problem is eliminated.

But for the record, I have sprayed Nason base with a Kirker clear without long-term problems (my friends car). I just don't recommend it if you don't have to.

RGAZ
I appreciate the info, like i said iv'e read a little bit on using the same product through the paint process and got alot of differing opinions, but to play it safe i'll stick with the same product other than the epoxy coat which i already have anyway, thanks for the input RGAZ.
 
I coat all my metal with epoxy primer first........most fillers can be applied to epoxy or bare metal, so I don't worry about breaking through the epoxy.

dont waste your time with any other primers, epoxy is all you need both under, over, and in between fillers.

some epoxies don't sand well, I have found Southern Polyurethanes epoxy to be very user friendly and fairly priced.....read and follow the instructions


Great advice-I will always use epoxy first and then move into bodywork and then my 2k primer. I was recently picking up my hood and doors from the blaster and we were having a similar discussion about epoxy primers and his comment was that he could not understand why anyone would not put epoxy on right off the bat. Filler sticks to epoxy real well and it since it sounds like you are going over an old finish it would also create a good seal. Don't forget to clean with grease and wax remover prior to coating with epoxy. As far as brand goes that subject has been hotly debated forever, I like SPI products and use their epoxy primer but in a pinch have used SEM DTM with good results. You cannot go wrong with a name brand but it comes at a cost, IMHO you are often buying the name. My GTO was the first car I ever allowed a shop to paint-I typically do my own. It was painted with PPG envirobase/vibrance clear-one year later it peeled off. Yes I blamed the shop for shoddy application and they blamed PPG who backed the paint by supplying new paint but now I am painting it myself so I know it is done right. On my Road Runner I plan to use Automotive Art motobase and SPI clear, I have done the research and IMO it is just as good or better than PPG. As far as keeping it all in one system and using all PPG or BASF or whatever brand you choose that is a personal choice. I try to stick with one brand as much as possible but like with the RR I am using different base than clear but I am using SPI 2k primers/sealer and SPI clear as well as talking to the guys at SPI about the base recommendations. It is also a plus that I can also have the base and clear delivered right to my front door.

I just read a thread on this forum last night about the different stages of paint prep application and it was very close to the way I do it. Also as you can tell I like SPI - I forced the shop that painted the GTO to use SPI clear on the Endura bumper and all he could do was rant about how great it flowed out and BTW the bumper didn't peel like the rest of the car did. SPI has some great forums also that several members of this forum are members of as well. Great painting advice in them even if you use a different product.

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopa...-paint-questions.195877/page-3#post-911598828

http://www.spiuserforum.com/index.php
 
Great advice-I will always use epoxy first and then move into bodywork and then my 2k primer. I was recently picking up my hood and doors from the blaster and we were having a similar discussion about epoxy primers and his comment was that he could not understand why anyone would not put epoxy on right off the bat. Filler sticks to epoxy real well and it since it sounds like you are going over an old finish it would also create a good seal. Don't forget to clean with grease and wax remover prior to coating with epoxy. As far as brand goes that subject has been hotly debated forever, I like SPI products and use their epoxy primer but in a pinch have used SEM DTM with good results. You cannot go wrong with a name brand but it comes at a cost, IMHO you are often buying the name. My GTO was the first car I ever allowed a shop to paint-I typically do my own. It was painted with PPG envirobase/vibrance clear-one year later it peeled off. Yes I blamed the shop for shoddy application and they blamed PPG who backed the paint by supplying new paint but now I am painting it myself so I know it is done right. On my Road Runner I plan to use Automotive Art motobase and SPI clear, I have done the research and IMO it is just as good or better than PPG. As far as keeping it all in one system and using all PPG or BASF or whatever brand you choose that is a personal choice. I try to stick with one brand as much as possible but like with the RR I am using different base than clear but I am using SPI 2k primers/sealer and SPI clear as well as talking to the guys at SPI about the base recommendations. It is also a plus that I can also have the base and clear delivered right to my front door.

I just read a thread on this forum last night about the different stages of paint prep application and it was very close to the way I do it. Also as you can tell I like SPI - I forced the shop that painted the GTO to use SPI clear on the Endura bumper and all he could do was rant about how great it flowed out and BTW the bumper didn't peel like the rest of the car did. SPI has some great forums also that several members of this forum are members of as well. Great painting advice in them even if you use a different product.

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopa...-paint-questions.195877/page-3#post-911598828

http://www.spiuserforum.com/index.php
Thanks for the advice, there are certainly alot of different products and opinions on them also, I'm a first timer when it comes to paint and bodywork but believe i can turn out a quality job in the end, this forum to me is as valuable as any tool i have, i will definitely research the products you recommend, thanks BrianS
 
I use PPG for everything, no more mixing brands for me. Had one really bad experience and I wont let that happen again. For me, epoxy goes on first and sealer goes on as the last coat before base coat. Some colors, mostly tri-coat applications, will call out what color sealer to use. As others have said, the TDS are your friend. Best of luck Sir!
 
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