Looking to buy a muscle car, why do the dealers have all the nice ones?

turbine68rt said:

Pa is 6% on the selling price or "current market value"

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Nevada is Zero…

Richard Cranium said:

I could make that look like this in less than a year....


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That would make a nice addition to your collection

Your inbox is full.

WileERobby said:

Car dealers & saleman are the lowest form of life.

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...next to Divorce lawyers and Parking Wardens.

WileERobby said:

Car dealers & saleman are the lowest form of life.

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kiwigtx said:

...next to Divorce lawyers and Parking Wardens.

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.....not all of us!! 15 years selling cars (new and used) and 19 selling RVs (with one selling motorcycles in between). Id like to think I'm an honest and genuine kinda guy when it comes to sales.....hopefully proven by my record on repeat business. I try to be the kind of salesman that Id like to buy from......I don't get it right every time but after selling for about 35 years I think I've just about got the hang of it!! But yes their are salesman who only care about increasing their pay at the end of the month by any means possible.

alfaitalia said:

.....not all of us!! 15 years selling cars (new and used) and 19 selling RVs (with one selling motorcycles in between). Id like to think I'm an honest and genuine kinda guy when it comes to sales.....hopefully proven by my record on repeat business. I try to be the kind of salesman that Id like to buy from......I don't get it right every time but after selling for about 35 years I think I've just about got the hang of it!! But yes their are salesman who only care about increasing their pay at the end of the month by any means possible.

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An exception to the rule. Years ago, I had a business which interacted with auto dealerships. I've never encountered another industry with low-lifes as these connivers. Their prime focus : screw the customer to fill your pocket.

kiwigtx said:

...next to Divorce lawyers .

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That's not what the winning client thinks !

I don't know if the car dealers now are as bad as they were years ago. I do know they have a high turn over. People don't stay around long. But, I don't give them much leash. I start off short and with an attitude. Not here to be friends, I want the best price and I want it now, no bs.

Depending on the state where the car is sold, you have several possibilities:

1) The tax is collected by the dealer for an in-state buyer. None collected for an out-of-state buyer
2) The tax is collected regardless, and the out-of-state buyer has to produce a document stating the tax was collected in the selling state. That gets weird.
3) Fifty states means fifty different sets of rules! As an example, for OK residents, you pay 4.5% of what the tag agency (our version of the DMV) says your vehicle is worth. If the actual price falls within their information, you pay 4.5% of that. If it's lower, you pay the tax on the middle value. If it's over their value, you pay on that actual purchase price. Yeah, it's a racket here, for certain.

alfaitalia said:

If you think they are expensive there you would have kittens with the prices they go for here. A rusty, holed engineless, glassless 68 to 70 Charger could easily be about $ 20,000 US ......and then theres parts costs and availability.....plus import tax on those parts. And then when its built you have run it on ten doller per gallon gas! On the plus side, on classics we have no road tax, no annual safety check, no emissions requirements and cheap classic car insurance.

Or this for about $60k

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203447865801?hash=item2f5e7011c9:g:lIsAAOSwqfJgZiFy

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I'm wondering if that '70 Charger is one I know that was in Belgium from 1990 on. A friend imported a 318 '70 Charger from Arizona in 1990 that was a stunning car! IIRC, it even had the same wheels on it. It would be a hoot if it were. Says it came out of NC, but that still could be. No VIN to verify.

I know a 1970 Hemi Challenger that made four round trips to UK and back to the US over a period of about 20 years, with different owners all along the way, starting in 1988.

Coveat emptor... buyer beware!

I rarely watch TV but the other day I was watching a rerun of the recent Barret-Jackson auction.....holy cow! It was rare to see any car go for under 100k. Who has 150k cash to drop on a tricked out 70 Bronco or a 72 Chevelle? I am not talking something special pretty much every car/truck that rolled across the stage.
I have had pretty good luck on CL finding cars you just need to be patient in fact I was just looking yesterday and saw some well priced cars listed (and many not priced to sell), several nice Mopars which is unusual to see. If you don't mind looking outside your area use Search Tempest it will search CL in a defined radius.

BrianS said:

I rarely watch TV but the other day I was watching a rerun of the recent Barret-Jackson auction.....holy cow! It was rare to see any car go for under 100k. Who has 150k cash to drop on a tricked out 70 Bronco or a 72 Chevelle? I am not talking something special pretty much every car/truck that rolled across the stage.
I have had pretty good luck on CL finding cars you just need to be patient in fact I was just looking yesterday and saw some well priced cars listed (and many not priced to sell), several nice Mopars which is unusual to see. If you don't mind looking outside your area use Search Tempest it will search CL in a defined radius.

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Yeah it’s always when you aren’t looking

as soon as you want a car they’re all sky high or not available but when you aren’t liking there’s deals left n right

Greed by both the sellers & consigners...
It's not just the dealerships, the client (consigners/owners)
all want every penny they can squeeze out of the car too...

or the Cheapskate factor play here too
everyone (Almost) wants something for a deal
"asking price often isn't sale price either, leaves room to negotiate"

Dealerships;
they are in business to make a profit
"maybe when Unicef has a classic car dealership, it may be different"
(ok, sorry, that's a lame Joe Dirt type reference)

Many people complain about auctions,
many people complain about prices always,
no matter where it is
it's human nature, especially in the car world
'prices, it almost always too high'

Of course, unless it's their car, that is being sold &
99% of the time, those that are complaining too
'they want as much as they can get, for their stuff too'

viscous cycles

Auction prices for some (not all, some are pigs with lipstick too)
many are quality parts, quality builds, quality paint $$$,
mega hrs (1,000+ sometimes) from a business, for restored/built cars
but it takes 2 to tango
#1 people willing to pay
&
#2 a product worth selling
#2a & also a place to get both parties together
#2b & both willing participants
Yes, sometimes it goes too far
pissing contests between bidders
or shills driving up the costs/prices

Some think because an auction setting
"something sells for huge $$$"
now their POS sitting for decades
or hoards out in the back 40/or outside anywhere
sitting on dirt or gavel or buried to the frame etc.
with weeds/trees or usually "RUST" growing thru it
now is worth the same kind of $$$
that's another issue in the car/collector car realm

sorry just had to vent a lil'
it's not just the dealers

I’ve run across pristine restored cars having a photo album of the restoration that would be comforting if I’d be on the market for another old ride. I have over 300 photos of my ’63 Plymouth vert restoration (CA car). Come the day I sell it, the buyer will have ample assurance of what exactly is being purchased.

My ’63 is the 2nd car I restored in my time; the 1st one was before cell phones and PC’s were around; but have a dozen or so photos. I broke about even cash-wise selling it; but ****, hate to think all the hours I put in went for zero. Guys that take the initiative to rebuild a car face a high hurdle if pondering on breaking even or garnering a profit, unless they have something really special. I’ve invested close to $40k on my ’63, again with countless DIY garage hours, and know that no friggin way I’d get that price for it. Is what it is…guys that search wisely for a cherry old ride never turning a wrench or shaving off knuckles will garner the better deals; maybe hugely so, IMO. Only when someone has done a resto can they appreciate the uncounted hours of B,S,& T's (and expletives).

My recent experience selling my GTX, and buying another, my sixth (seventh if you count Baby Blue twice, '83 and 2013) since 1977, underscored many points made on this thread. All six of my cars were purchased from private parties. I looked at one at a dealership in 2015, only because it had colors and options I was after, but the condition didn't stand up to close inspection. I made what l considered a fair offer, and a few months later they sold it for what I'd offered, 15K under what they were originally asking. All of my six cars were inspected personally prior to purchase. I spent $350 on an airline ticket in 2015 when I checked out the one I just sold. No regrets.

I have a personal problem that has kept me from making a profit on any of my cars. I think I love GTXs more than any collector on the country, and have always been willing to pay a premium for good ones. I've never had a buyer who I felt would love the car as much as I had. Not one was ever looking for a GTX specifically, just a nice B body. My selling prices have tended to reflect what a seller would get at Mecum, after fees and commission. I'm not a professional car salesman (though as a lawyer, I understand the process), and I'd rather leave money on the table, then spend six months dealing with dreamers and picture collectors. I sold car #3 at auction in 1998, after getting burned out with tire kickers, and actually got more money.

Dealers and auctions make money by selling to buyers who are often making a spur of the moment, emotional purchase. I consigned my car to Mecum last year, after attending the Harrisburg auction in 2019, and watching qualified bidders consuming complimentary alcoholic beverages. I figured it was worth 10% of hammer price to get access to that market. Covid cancelled 2020 (and Mecum refunded my entry fee in 24 hours, were extremely professional), but I used my Mecum reserve price as a benchmark when I sold my car, and I got the same as if I'd gone to auction. Seems like I always end up buying at hammer price (10% under retail), and selling for wholesale.

All my buyers have come to inspect the car personally before purchase, and the only pictures they've been really concerned about are shots of numbers stampings and the fender tag to verify authenticity. For every serious buyer, I've always had at least half a dozen guys who want 30 pictures before they look at the car. My experience, for what it's worth, as both buyer and seller, is try to determine that you're dealing with a serious, honest, fellow enthusiast. This can be more instrumental in a good deal for both parties than all the pictures on the internet.

68BabyBlue said:

My recent experience selling my GTX, and buying another, my sixth since 1977, underscored many points made on this thread. All six of my cars were purchased from private parties. I looked at one at a dealership in 2015, only because it had colors and options I was after, but the condition didn't stand up to close inspection. I made what l considered a fair offer, and a few months later they sold it for what I'd offered, 15K under what they were originally asking. All of my six cars were inspected personally prior to purchase. I spent $350 on an airline ticket in 2015 when I checked out the one I just sold. No regrets.

I have a personal problem that has kept me from making a profit on any of my cars. I think I love GTXs more than any collector on the country, and have always been willing to pay a premium for good ones. I've never had a buyer who I felt would love the car as much as I had. Not one was ever looking for a GTX specifically, just a nice B body. My selling prices have tended to reflect what a seller would get at Mecum, after fees and commission. I'm not a professional car salesman (though as a lawyer, I understand the process), and I'd rather leave money on the table, then spend six months dealing with dreamers and picture collectors. I sold car #3 at auction in 1998, after getting burned out with tire kickers, and actually got more money.

Dealers and auctions make money by selling to buyers who are often making a spur of the moment, emotional purchase. I consigned my car to Mecum last year, after attending the Harrisburg auction in 2019, and watching qualified bidders consuming complementary alcoholic beverages. I figured it was worth 10% of hammer price to get access to that market. Covid cancelled 2020 (and Mecum refunded my entry fee in 24 hours, were extremely professional), but I used my Mecum reserve price as a benchmark when I sold my car, and I got the same as if I'd gone to auction. Seems like I always end up buying at hammer price (10% under retail), and selling for wholesale.

All my buyers have come to inspect the car personally before purchase, and the only pictures they've been really concerned about are shots of numbers stampings and the fender tag to verify authenticity. For every serious buyer, I've always had at least half a dozen guys who want 30 pictures before they look at the car. My experience, for what it's worth, as buyer and seller both, is try to determine that you're dealing with a serious, honest, fellow enthusiast. This can be more instrumental in a good deal for both parties than all the pictures on the internet.

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Interesting info. And nice deal, get liquored up while considering buying a dream car.

Paul G what are you looking for? Your inbox is full.

On the other hand, I have had my GTX listed on at least 5 different sites since December and only ONE serious inquiry. I even posted a link to my 20 page build blog so people could see what went into the build and how it performs since completed. Sure, my ask is in line with all the other GTX listings. It might just boil down to what you want to do and how much money and time you have to do it. If you want a "done" car you might just want to start calculating how much it is going to cost you to "build" it after you finally find one to build. THEN take another look at "done" prices.
Not sticking up for ANY dealer here, just really commenting on how much it costs these days to build a nice car. One very seldom gets out of a car what they put into it.