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Crank wont turn.....

Ghostrider 67

Jack Stand Racer #6..and proud of it!
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Hey friends, I have a little issue. I'm assembling my 440 and have run into a snag. Having followed the directions of my handbook, the advice of my engine shop and common sense, I am stumped. After installing new .040 Speed Pro pistons, new bearings, both mains and rods, and installing the camshaft and timing chain set.... the thing wont rotate. Not by hand anyway.. If I don't torque down the rod caps I can turn the crank with a 4 foot cheater bar and rotate the cylinders. It's tight but spins with out any noticeable hang-ups. I used assembly lube everywhere, lots of it. Oiled the cylinder walls, floated the pistons and connecting rods in engine oil, 100% synthetic oil...Everything is spotless. As soon as I torque down the rod cap nuts to 45 ft lbs it freezes up and wont spin. I don't want to break anything but what now? Loosen the rod cap nuts and it will spin. Is it a combination of all new bearings, rings and pistons? Thoughts please. Ghost.
 
You have a major problem, not a little issue. Look at all rods and caps and make sure they are the same numbers together On the same side of the rod and the caps correct direction. Tab to tab on the bearings.

Then make sure the bearings are the right size for the crank.
 
If it's the rods that are the problem you only have a couple of things to check.
1. Are all the rod caps on the rods in the right direction and the right cap on the right rod.
2. Are the rod bearings you got the right size for the crank. if the crank was turned .010 are the bearings marked .010. and was the crank turned correctly and is the undersize correct ?
3. If the rods them selves where resized are they the correct size for your crank.
Without taking everything apart to measure everything on it's own you could get some plastagage and measure the bearing clearance to get a rough idea how much you really have. .001-.002 is a good guess as to what you should have for clearance.
Hopefully this will help point you in the right direction. Good Luck
 
I think I found the issue. First off the pistons/rods came back to me from RPM Racing Engines with the caps on each rod. What I did is forgot to pair the rods with the offsets facing each other. The shop provided the correct bearing and rings. I took each cap off one at a time while putting each piston in so they are not mixed up. The caps go on with the oiling slot facing it's partner. So, the rods need to be paired up with the meatier sides facing each other..right? Thanks.
 
If you loosen the rods and you still need to use a 4 ft far to turn it,then it’s not the rods at least not to rods alone. Did you put the balancer on, my ATI balancer required a spacer, or it jammed things up.
umm no, not yet. The timing set is on. Would the balancer make that much difference at this point? The engine shop advised me that MOPAR cams go in sort of tight on the final bearing, and it's normal. as long as I could still turn the cam by the sprocket it was fine. I could so that's not it. The crank spun nicely prior to installing the pistons so it's in there somewhere...I went an looked just now and the rods are NOT paired up with the meatier sides together..
 
It's hard to explan. The side of the rod needs to fit the radius of the crank at the counter weight. Are you using stock rods or aftermarket ? If you are using stock rods a good shop manual will so you where the lock tangs on rods face. But a easy way to tell is if they are numbered the number face out toward the pan rail because that was the easy way to stamp them and each number went with each cylinder.
 
It's hard to explan. The side of the rod needs to fit the radius of the crank at the counter weight. Are you using stock rods or aftermarket ? If you are using stock rods a good shop manual will so you where the lock tangs on rods face. But a easy way to tell is if they are numbered the number face out toward the pan rail because that was the easy way to stamp them and each number went with each cylinder.
Stock rods, new pistons wrist pins. The rod caps have numbers on BOTH ends but not like 12345678...it's like 77...83/34/etc..
I'm pulling this puppy back apart and pairing up these pistons / rods. I assumed..lol.. that the shop had done so because the pistons were in a segregated box. Must not have paired them though. I should have checked it. Once paired up by offset and alignment to the engine front of each piston the caps will go on with the oiling slot facing it's partner. Regardless of any numbers stamped on there because none of mine have sequential 1-8 numbers. All have odd double digit sets on both ends of the caps and nothing on the center end pads. It's doubtful that the racing shop mixed up caps and rods. These guys are race engine builders day in and day out and know their ****. Crank is polished.
 
If it's the rods that are the problem you only have a couple of things to check.
1. Are all the rod caps on the rods in the right direction and the right cap on the right rod.
2. Are the rod bearings you got the right size for the crank. if the crank was turned .010 are the bearings marked .010. and was the crank turned correctly and is the undersize correct ?
3. If the rods them selves where resized are they the correct size for your crank.
Without taking everything apart to measure everything on it's own you could get some plastagage and measure the bearing clearance to get a rough idea how much you really have. .001-.002 is a good guess as to what you should have for clearance.
Hopefully this will help point you in the right direction. Good Luck
Will check that.
Crank was not turned. Just polished. Racing machine shop provided the correct bearings all around at my request.
Rods not resized. Pistons are bigger because it went from .030-.040..
Don't have any Plastigage but will employ some once I have the rods/pistons paired up correctly.
 
I think maybe you need to take them back to the machine shop and have the size of the big ends checked to make sure.
Thanks for the advice, but, as I said, these guys are super professional racing engine builders for the entire North East racing crowd. Not a bunch of ho hum amateur's. Spotless professional shop with decades of experience. I will call and ask but I'm not going to start carting parts back for inspection just yet. It's more likely something that I have done wrong than them.
 
It's hard to explan. The side of the rod needs to fit the radius of the crank at the counter weight. Are you using stock rods or aftermarket ? If you are using stock rods a good shop manual will so you where the lock tangs on rods face. But a easy way to tell is if they are numbered the number face out toward the pan rail because that was the easy way to stamp them and each number went with each cylinder.
I'm thinking I have not paired the piston/rod sets up correctly. I have some offset sides facing the counterweights and some facing in. It's not right.
 
I'm not saying anything about there work or your work. It's just one small thing most of the time that screws everything up. But If I didn't ask questions I wouldn't have a clue how to try and help
 
Hey friends, I have a little issue. I'm assembling my 440 and have run into a snag. Having followed the directions of my handbook, the advice of my engine shop and common sense, I am stumped. After installing new .040 Speed Pro pistons, new bearings, both mains and rods, and installing the camshaft and timing chain set.... the thing wont rotate. Not by hand anyway.. If I don't torque down the rod caps I can turn the crank with a 4 foot cheater bar and rotate the cylinders. It's tight but spins with out any noticeable hang-ups. I used assembly lube everywhere, lots of it. Oiled the cylinder walls, floated the pistons and connecting rods in engine oil, 100% synthetic oil...Everything is spotless. As soon as I torque down the rod cap nuts to 45 ft lbs it freezes up and wont spin. I don't want to break anything but what now? Loosen the rod cap nuts and it will spin. Is it a combination of all new bearings, rings and pistons? Thoughts please. Ghost.

Make sure all the main and rod caps are in order, matching each main and rod. Make sure the locating tangs of the bearing are on the same side (caps not on backwards.) check the back of each main and rod bearing that they are the correct size, and not for an undersized journal. Also check side clearances for rods, and crank end-play.
 
Sounds like wrong bearings!! .010 under bearings with a standard size crank. happened to a friend of mine years ago.
 
I think u better enlist the help of a trusted friend to check everything over. If the caps were on backwards and torqued your best bet is to get the rods checked again. May need resizing again and or new bolts from being forced on. Kim
 
Call the machine shop and ask: "How much to assemble this engine?" My shop does it by the hour and you may be surprised how little it may cost. Another 10%? Engine assembly is something most people can accomplish, but even a little mistake can be costly in time and money.
 
Agree with checking the the caps pairing and if they are in the correct journal ( facing the throw or against the paired rod). You also need to check side clearances.
How did the pistons move on the pins?
There is a thread here, I can't copy the link for some reason but its titled on the forum, it may answer some questions.
440 Piston vs. Rod Orientation
 
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I'm thinking I have not paired the piston/rod sets up correctly. I have some offset sides facing the counterweights and some facing in. It's not right.
That's what it sounds like to me too. It should spin nice and free with the rod caps tightened down..you probably just criss-crossed something somewhere.
Look closely at the rods before putting them in, the chamfers on the rod and cap bearing circle must face outward toward the crank counterweights, not toward the adjacent rod on that particular journal. Maybe that's the problem; maybe not.
Just a little tidbit that might help for next time, I always test rotation after each step, starting with laying the crank. Put it in, spin it. Put the caps on snug, spin it. Torque 'em down, spin it after tightening each one. I'm in no hurry. Same thing after setting each rod/piston assembly....and so on. That way you can identify any issues or abnormalities right when they happen. Timing set/cam should go in only after the rotating assembly is verified OK. You'll get it nailed!
:thumbsup:
 
I'm not saying anything about there work or your work. It's just one small thing most of the time that screws everything up. But If I didn't ask questions I wouldn't have a clue how to try and help
Oh I know! I'm not mad. I'm digging on all the help here. I'm thankful. No worries. I think I just missed an important step in pairing up those big ends. I was so focused on rings and positioning, direction of the arrows on top of pistons, lubing everything, not scratching anything etc. I got caught up and forgot to get those big ends situated correctly as well. I don't really mind pulling it back apart. I'm used to TBI ******* my **** up. It's why I'm unemployable. I'll get it sorted no I think.
 
Honestly. I think it's just the pairing up of rods and then it will be okay. I know the rod bearings and main bearings are orientated right. I had to turn the crank for each rod to hit the journal at BDC so it was spun right along each time. I just have them mismatched I believe. It's no huge deal to slid the plugs out and line them up and get the pairings correct. We will see how it turns after I get them on there correctly. I will look again at the boxes for the new bearings too. I will check the crank sizing too. I know that pairing up is the step I missed.
 
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