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A833 Four Speed Transmission Fluid Recommendation

From the 1970 Plymouth FSM (section 21 page 118)
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Here’s the 1970 dodge manual, notice the 3 speed synchronized calls for ATF. The 4 speed calls for either.

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My buddy rebuilds all my 4 speeds, they all get Pennzoil Synchromesh.
 
Yep, I remember checking new cars and a lot of them came from the factory with auto trans fluid in the manual transmissions. It did seem strange at that time,,,,, I do recall one instance when a car, came into the shop. I think it was a 3 speed, would not shift into reverse. I drained the fluid and put something in it to clean it out, don't remember what, but got it shifting and then refilled with auto fluid. The reverse gear shaft was gummed up,,, I guess. This would have been between 1969 and 1979,,,,,,
 
The 1970 Charger/Coronet factory service manual says to use ATF, and my 2008 manual 5 speed F150 uses ATF. Should I really be using gear oil?

I would suggest exactly what is perscribed for your year vehicles by Chrysler Corp. My RS23V0A******* GTX uses 80W-90 Mobil 1 gear oil in its A-833 18 spline 4 speed transmission and has for many yesrs without any degradation of the synchronizer sleeves, synchro teeth, clutch pawls, shifting forks or gear teeth......but....ultimately its your choice. This is what works for me.
BOB RENTON
 
My 74 Dodge pickup with the A250 (?) 3 speed stick came with ATF which surprised me and after messing up a rear case bearing pulling a concrete trailer, it got 'real' gear lube once fixed. I did notice it was harder to shift in the winter time but it did ok until it warmed up. Just couldn't be forceful with it.
 
I can guarantee that your 18 spline 4 speed didn’t come with Mobil 1 from the factory not in the owners manual suggesting it be used.
 
Use a good grade 80W/90W gear oil... The seals don't like some of the synthetic lubes..

Just my $0.02... :)
 
I can guarantee that your 18 spline 4 speed didn’t come with Mobil 1 from the factory not in the owners manual suggesting it be used.

That's fine.....but that's what's been in for the past 25+ years......with no complaints or wear on the synchronizer sleeves and teeth......but i do not race it. I could go into a dissertation about the addition of phosphorus and sulfur based compounds and their possible / apparent detrimental effects on brass, but the "brass" components are not your soft 80%-20% tin-copper alloy but more to the sluminum-silicon-bronze alloy that has been hardened....it depends on the exact alloy in question. But....i'll stay with what works for me......
BOB RENTON
 
I have never driven/maintained an 833 as of yet. I now have a used one ready to go back into my original 73 factory four speed car shortly. Being a GM guy for many , many years I have several Muncie 4 speeds that I have rebuilt and maintain. Now as far as synthetics oils go, compared to conventional oils, syns win in every category hands down. But, as tight as I can assemble a factory Muncie , they just seem to leak more when using the thinner synthetics oils. They just were not machined back then with the close tolerances needed as todays parts are. So, for that reason alone, I usually stay with conventional lubes. I will be for sure checking on how my 833 handles different lubes for leaks and seepage.....
 
I worked for a delivery company for 25 years maintaining their trucks. In the mid 90's upper management decided that we should use synthetic gear oil in our New process and Muncie four speed transmissions. Synchronizer's work on the principle of friction, and there needs to be enough friction to get the gear up to speed to shift properly. After filling up a newly rebuilt trans with Synthetic gear oil the syncs were too slick and it would not shift without grinding gears unless you shifted very slow, now what delivery driver is going to shift very slow? A typical trans would last less than a month when using syn oil. Management was deaf to our pleas to go back to regular 80-90 gear oil and when an audit was done they did not want to find ANY 80 90 in the shop. We had the transmissions rebuilt by a company in a nearby city and we decided that when we ordered a trans from them they would send a couple of jugs of regular 80-90. We would then then make sure the empty jugs got thrown in the dumpster so no evidence could be found in the shop......
 
When I had my Duster, I put Amsoil in it back in the late 70's when I took the 3 Spd out and put a 4 in.. When I first rowed through the gears it felt like the shift rods were not connected. It was way easier to row through the gears. However, I had issues shifting above 5 grand. Would not go. I talked to a guy from the Bay Area about this back in the early 80's and found that the synchros for that trans did not agree with the synthetic at higher rpm. When I put the Hemi 18 spline unit in, he had slick shifted it, I went with his recommendation of putting 140 in it. Worked great then. Maybe others will have a different experience with this.
 
I struggled with this question for years with the A833 18 spline transmissions I own. When I first rebuilt mine back in 1980, it had ATF in it. That didn't seem right but agreed with the FSM. I filled it with 80W90 gear oil at the time and it never shifted properly to my satisfaction. Tried 85W140, same issue. Strait SAE 140 was impossible to find at my location so I crossed referenced an ISO equivalent lube oil from work. That work best for years. When I freshened the trans in 2000, I procured needed pieces from Liberty's Gears in Detroit. At that time they indicated that the Mopar (Direct Connection) synchro rings that I had used back in 1980 were not made correctly and was part of the problem I had originally experienced. I used their (Liberty's) supplied synchro rings and they worked great, but I still was using the ISO 140 oil. Moving forward another 20 years, I have just changed all of the fluids in this car. I used the Penzoil GL-4 Synchromesh Fluid (didn't have a source of the ISO 140 anymore) and it seems to be doing the trick so far. GL-5 80W90 went in the Dana.
 
Lots of guys on here have posted they use two quarts of ATF fluid and then two of your choice of tranny lube and they shift great. Thats what I am planning to use.....
Good luck with that Mix.
 
I struggled with this question for years with the A833 18 spline transmissions I own. When I first rebuilt mine back in 1980, it had ATF in it. That didn't seem right but agreed with the FSM. I filled it with 80W90 gear oil at the time and it never shifted properly to my satisfaction. Tried 85W140, same issue. Strait SAE 140 was impossible to find at my location so I crossed referenced an ISO equivalent lube oil from work. That work best for years. When I freshened the trans in 2000, I procured needed pieces from Liberty's Gears in Detroit. At that time they indicated that the Mopar (Direct Connection) synchro rings that I had used back in 1980 were not made correctly and was part of the problem I had originally experienced. I used their (Liberty's) supplied synchro rings and they worked great, but I still was using the ISO 140 oil. Moving forward another 20 years, I have just changed all of the fluids in this car. I used the Penzoil GL-4 Synchromesh Fluid (didn't have a source of the ISO 140 anymore) and it seems to be doing the trick so far. GL-5 80W90 went in the Dana.
Nice you have learned.
 
As some of you know I just completed a tranny swap in my 64 Hemi Savoy. Automatic to 4 timer. In talking to Brewers numerous times during the project the subject came up about fluid for my freshly built 833 and their recommendation was straight dura lube and if you had a slight rub thru the synchros during break in cut it with a pint of ATF. Do not think its necessary to make comments like R413 made when we are trying to help each other out.

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Nice you have learned.

It wasn't a case of learning, it is what was available at the time. GL-4 and GL-5 fluids are not mentioned in the FSM, nor available in 1980, if the spec even existed at that time. Straight SAE 140 (as per the FSM) did work for years, but is now difficult for me to obtain. I am agreeing that the the Penzoil Syncromesh GL-4 fluid works very well, so far.
 
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Dan Brewer recommended.
I tend to listen to what experts recommend.
The 18-spline fresh rebuild in Fred shifts perfectly as a result.
The human doing the shifting screws up once in a blue moon, though. :)
 
I think some are way over thinking this. If you are racing the car and/or beating on it hard and frequently then you want some good lubrication/protection for the gears and synchros but for the majority of the people here you just need some lubrication period. Whether it is ATF, GL4, 80/90, 140, etc. its all going to work for the most part. Despite what some might think, these transmissions are not high precision delicate pieces of equipment, they are generally pretty crude and just need some decent lub to keep from eating itself up.

Use what the manual says, use what Brewers says, or make up your own concoction based on your (or someone else's) experience and you will probably be ok. If you do choose incorrectly you are not going to destroy the trans immediately, it will perhaps whine, shift hard, etc. so you can go back and replace it.
 
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