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Water temperature gauge stopped working

Michael_

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So we replaced the fan clutch & fan such as the driver side valve cover gasket the last couple days on my 1969 dodge charger r/t with a 440.
It looks good so far but when we finally wanted to take the car for a test drive we noticed the temperature gauge stopped working.
A few days ago before we did the work the gauge was still working.
I dont know if its due to the work we did because some time ago the oil pressure gauge wasn't working, but now its working again...

Notice the flasher sometimes works when i switch it on, sometimes not.
Also the hood mounted turn signal on the driver side does sometimes work, sometimes not. But it looks to be only a loose connection in the socket.

Anyway i checked the fuses in the glove box and they look good.

We removed this plug (which i think connects to the sending unit?) and reconnected it, also wiggled on it. Made no difference.

temp 1.jpg

temp 2.jpg

temp 3.jpg


We also wiggled on all these cables, made no difference either.
(Maybe wiggled not enough, my dad was wiggling while i was watching the gauge...)

router.jpg


I think this is the oil pressure sending unit?

oil pressure sending unit.jpg


-----

Any advice on what this could be?
Maybe we created a loose connection while working? If so what to check?
I am not an electronics engineer so please describe for a fool, thanks!

I will buy a infrared thermometer to check if the engine overheats on idling but it would be cool if i could take the car for a ride on the weekend...
 
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Pull and check the instrument fuse, along with it's clips for rust or corrosion. Also at the bulkhead connector, clean all terminals on the engine harness and also in the bulkhead. Intermittent problems like that are sometimes tuff, but seem so simple when found. Have you ever seen a glass fuse that looked good, tested good, but came apart when removed?
 
first I would test the gauge itself by grounding the wire to the block to see if the gauge moves (get some one to help you and don't let the wire ground to long of a time), if the gauge doesn't work you have a wiring problem. Next clean the sender and wire connector with sand paper to clean them, then with the wire connected start the car and see if it is working, if not the sender is bad .
 
Good advice above. If you check the sender wire with a dc voltmeter, you should see a 12v pulse. And the key has to be on for the grounded wire test. As moes said, only briefly.
 
Thanks i will check all this on saturday! (unfortunately don't have time tomorrow)

I just bought an infrared thermometer just in case i'm not able to solve the problem on saturday.
Will also tell if the temperature gauge is showing the truth when it's finally working again.
I think i have to stay away from the exhaust manifolds but where exactly on the engine should i point it to get an accurate reading?
 
I just bought an infrared thermometer just in case i'm not able to solve the problem on saturday.
I think i have to stay away from the exhaust manifolds but where exactly on the engine should i point it to get an accurate reading?

I was researching this a bit and think i will point it at the thermostat housing or the upper radiator hose near the housing. :)
 
I was researching this a bit and think i will point it at the thermostat housing or the upper radiator hose near the housing. :)

The thermostat housing would be a good place. Those I.F thermometers are quite accurate. They will read exactly where the red dot is placed.

Do like Moe's said. And yes you ground the wire in your last pic, momentarily! Have someone watch the guage for movement. Then report back.
 
The good news is that it looks like the new valve cover gasket isn't leaking and
that the car does not overheat (according to the infrared thermometer).

The bad news however:

first I would test the gauge itself by grounding the wire to the block to see if the gauge moves (get some one to help you and don't let the wire ground to long of a time), if the gauge doesn't work you have a wiring problem.

Did that (also cleaned the plug/wire) but gauge does not move.
Tried with ignition on and even the engine running.

Pull and check the instrument fuse, along with it's clips for rust or corrosion.
Have you ever seen a glass fuse that looked good, tested good, but came apart when removed?

We took out the fuse and checked the whole fuse box and both look good. No corrosion and the fuse looks fine, not falling apart.

Also at the bulkhead connector, clean all terminals on the engine harness and also in the bulkhead.

We removed all three plugs and cleaned them such as the bulkhead itself. (Picture before cleaning)

IMG_1110.jpg


router.jpg


We did NOT remove every single wire from the three plugs that connect to the bulkhead.
I hope we dont have to but probably will if nothing else works...

If you check the sender wire with a dc voltmeter, you should see a 12v pulse.

The next thing we do will be checking both the sender wire and the fuse with a multimeter.

Any further tips on what we could check/try?

-----

IMG_1109.jpg


Is this black wire at the front of the fuse(box) stock?
I would suspect no? What could this probably do?
 
right side, 4 down. Underneath that nasty inline fuse coming from the relay

tttt_LI (2).jpg temp 2_LI.jpg
 
This gauge is driving me insane!

Today we connected this end of the wire directly to the battery plus

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/attachments/tttt_li-2-jpg.1144657/

and checked with the multimeter on this end

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/attachments/temp-2_li-jpg.1144659/

Result: Perfect constant voltage (same as directly on battery) even when wiggling the wire at different places.

We also checked the fuse box with a multimeter and every fuse has 14V except the instrument fuse (the one all the way to the right) which only
has 8-9V. It also only has voltage when the lights are on but this is normal as far as i know?
But is it normal that this fuse only reads 8-9V while all the others read 14V? If not what could be wrong?
We had the fuse out and also checked the fuse and & fuse box for rust and corrosion but it does look pretty good. Fuse is not falling apart...
Especially @Jerry Hall since you gave me the tip to check this fuse.

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/attachments/img_1109-jpg.1144552/

Strange thing was the gauge worked for 3 minutes today, then stopped working again. (This was after we did our tests)
I have absolutely no idea why...
Tapping on the gauge also did not do anything...

My dad thinks it is inside the cabin/dash and wants to pull the gauge (cluster).
I just fear there could might be a loose connection somewhere outside too. I want to be pretty certain before pulling the gauge cluster...
(Is there a good guide if we have to do this?)

My problem is i never read a wiring diagram before and i dont know where all the wires on the bulkhead are coming from and going to.
Any other wires on the bulkhead i should check?

Any advice appreciated.
 
you said you grounded the wire with the key on and the gauge did not move. To eliminate that wire under the hood so is not the problem, I would check the continuity of it with multimeter first. Place one lead on the bulkhead wire I showed you and the other on the the end of the wire connected to the sender, the multimeter should beep meaning the wire is ok, no beep wire is no good. If the wire is ok you know that the problem is between the bulkhead wire and the gauge or the gauge itself. How good did you clean the connection in the bulkhead and the wire to the sender unit, you want them shiny looking? But you said it worked for a while and then quit, so that tells me the wiring and gauge is ok. I got a feeling your problem is in the bulkhead connection and the wire. I've seen the connectors in the bulkhead spread apart some so the connection is a loose fit causing the problem to. So I would crimp the connector down a little so you get a good connection between it and the wire from the sender


IMG_1026.JPG
 
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you said you grounded the wire with the key on and the gauge did not move.

Yes

To eliminate that wire under the hood so is not the problem, I would check the continuity of it with multimeter first.
Place one lead on the bulkhead wire I showed you and the other on the the end of the wire connected to the sender, the multimeter should beep meaning
the wire is ok, no beep wire is no good. If the wire is ok you know that the problem is between the bulkhead wire and the gauge or the gauge itself.

We connected this end of the wire directly to the battery plus

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/attachments/tttt_li-2-jpg.1144657/

and checked with the multimeter on this end

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/attachments/temp-2_li-jpg.1144659/

Result: Perfect constant voltage (same as directly on battery) even when wiggling the wire at different places.

Doesn't this already mean the wire is good?
We can do this test too of course.

How good did you clean the connection in the bulkhead and the wire to the sender unit, you want them shiny looking?

We used contact spray and compressed air.
I personally wasn't shure about using contact spray but my dad said it won't hurt anything...
The contacts on the plugs that connect to the bulkhead look pretty good, we did nothing to them.

Maybe we didn't clean the connections good enough but how to clean the bulkhead otherwise since you cant really fit sand paper in the connectors?

I got a feeling your problem is in the bulkhead connection and the wire.
I've seen the connectors in the bulkhead spread apart some so the connection is a loose fit causing the problem to.
So I would crimp the connector down a little so you get a good connection between it and the wire from the sender

I will check this and everything else over again.
Maybe it's really just that we did not clean the connections good enough.
 
We used contact spray and compressed air.

that will not work, you need to use sand paper or a small file to clean both connectors. (Male and female)

to clean the bulkhead female connections disconnect the three plugs. Then push on the two tabs at the top of the bulkhead to release it. Then push the bulkhead in towards the inside of the car. Then go inside and pull it down so you can clean the connectors. Done it many times on different cars. Next get a small screwdriver and press it into the little slot to release the connector from the plastic bulkhead. Do one at a time so you will not mix up the location of the plug. Clean it and then take small pliers to close up the gap a little so it will make good contact with the male plug when you connect it. Make sure you bend the tab up before putting the connector back in to the plastic bulkhead so it will stay in place. When done just push plastic bulkhead into the firewall hole till it clicks in place, there is only one way it fits. You can use the screwdriver to release the male plug connectors to, so you can clean them. Before connecting them put some dielectric grease in the bulkhead connectors so they will not corrode again. Do all the connectors once and you will not have to do it again in the future.

wwww_LI.jpg wwww_LI (3).jpg
 
Is the voltage limiter working? There should be a 12v pulsed output, averaging about 5 vdc. The fusible link looks like the insulation is frayed? Bad sign there. The engine/alternator harness leads a hard life with the heat it takes. I know it's expensive to buy from the states for you, but I'd just replace the engine harness for safety's sake. Then you'll have a new temp and oil gauge wiring, as well as the alternator and ignition.
 
So today we kept on diagnosing...

To eliminate that wire under the hood so is not the problem, I would check the continuity of it with multimeter first. Place one lead on the bulkhead wire I showed you and the other on the the end of the wire connected to the sender, the multimeter should beep meaning the wire is ok, no beep wire is no good. If the wire is ok you know that the problem is between the bulkhead wire and the gauge or the gauge itself.

Did this and it beeps, so the wire is good.

What we also did was (with the plugs from the bulkhead removed) placed on lead from the multimeter on the female bulkhead connector and the other lead
to the male connector/pin on the plug that connects to the bulkhead.
Tried that with ignition on and off. It did NOT beep.
But i think this is probably normal? I just tried it since we already had it apart...

We used contact spray and compressed air.

that will not work, you need to use sand paper or a small file to clean both connectors. (Male and female)

to clean the bulkhead female connections disconnect the three plugs. Then push on the two tabs at the top of the bulkhead to release it. Then push the bulkhead in towards the inside of the car. Then go inside and pull it down so you can clean the connectors. Done it many times on different cars. Next get a small screwdriver and press it into the little slot to release the connector from the plastic bulkhead. Do one at a time so you will not mix up the location of the plug. Clean it and then take small pliers to close up the gap a little so it will make good contact with the male plug when you connect it. Make sure you bend the tab up before putting the connector back in to the plastic bulkhead so it will stay in place. When done just push plastic bulkhead into the firewall hole till it clicks in place, there is only one way it fits. You can use the screwdriver to release the male plug connectors to, so you can clean them. Before connecting them put some dielectric grease in the bulkhead connectors so they will not corrode again. Do all the connectors once and you will not have to do it again in the future.

I suspect you did it on non A/C cars? Because the heater/ac core (box) is in the way. I can't pull it out.
I can barely see it and can't even reach it with my fingers.
We also tried to pull the bulkhead out in the engine bay direction but this seems to be impossible as well.

IMG_1126.jpg


Anyway we still cleaned both the male and female pins/plugs with a small file without removing the bulkhead as good as possible.
-> Gauge still does not move

you said you grounded the wire with the key on and the gauge did not move.

After cleaning the contacts as good as possible (without removing the bulkhead) we also cleaned this plug again (with a file)
and tried the grounding again while the engine was running -> gauge does not move.

We also measured the voltage with the multimeter while the engine was running
Its not zero but pretty much all over the place, see video:



Is the voltage limiter working?

Where is it located and could it be responsible for ONLY the temperature gauge not working? Also how do i test it?

The fusible link looks like the insulation is frayed? Bad sign there. The engine/alternator harness leads a hard life with the heat it takes. I know it's expensive to buy from the states for you, but I'd just replace the engine harness for safety's sake. Then you'll have a new temp and oil gauge wiring, as well as the alternator and ignition.

We've already seen it. Meanwhile the wire broke apart by itself when we removed the connector.
We temporarily fixed it with a luster terminal but i plan on replacing the whole fusible link/wire.
Can this be bought somewhere? Would almost prefer good NOS but on the other hand that isulation is also 50 years old...

All in all the harness does not look all that bad (not mint either) so i'm not really hot about replacing it right now.
But is there an NOS or stock reproduction?

-----

We will do one more test by bridging the male pins of the plug that connects to the bulkhead with the female ones of the bulkhead
with wires that have these connectors on the ends:
AFKV_131694716506853392IDnwCBw3I0.jpg

and then testing again with the multimeter while the car is running.
Just to make sure its not the connection on the bulkhead at the engine side.

Question:
Do we have to bridge all 8 connectors on the mid port from the bulkhead for this test?
Or which ones do i need to bridge for this test?

But at this point we are pretty sure the problem is NOT located in the engine bay but BEHIND the firewall.
I also tried wiggling on the wires unter the dash, especially the ones that go to the bulkhead while my dad was watching the gauge
but unfortunately it does not move at all when doing so.

I think its probably either a loose connection on the back/dash side of the bulkhead which means -> removing the heater core (box)
Or at the gauge cluster -> which means dropping the steering column and pulling the cluster out.
Or a bad wire somewhere inside/under the dash.
I'm not sure if i want to do this right now. On the other hand the heater core needs to be replaced anyway and the clock is also not working
since i got the car. :D

Is there a good youtube video or tutorial with pictures for removing the gauge cluster and/or heater/ac core/box?

Also when i look at the wiring i get the feeling that somebody (or multiple persons) already touched that in the past since there
is tape on it and i'm questioning if all wires and locations are stock.
Oh man i was hoping i would NOT have to deal with shaddy work from previous owners/restorers since this is a survivor car...
I never had another mopar so i dont know if its stock or not, tough. :)

IMG_1120.jpg


router.jpg
 
Sure looks like there is a non stock blue connector peeking out from under that black electrical tape. I would open that up to see what is going on there.
 
Sure looks like there is a non stock blue connector peeking out from under that black electrical tape. I would open that up to see what is going on there.

Can you mark it in the image?
I posted 3 different pictures and i'm not really seeing what you mean?
 
Can you mark it in the image?
I posted 3 different pictures and i'm not really seeing what you mean?
Not sure how to mark pics? It is in the interior shot by the steering column. To the right of the white connector.
 
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