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Hemi Clone street build up suggestions needed

C

Cudatali

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I've getting ready to start my build up of a Hemi for street use. My intended use would be a hot street cruiser with best possible street manners within the street configuration. I can easily use manual brakes but will likely be using power steering and a/c due to hot south texas weather, I'm leaning towards running a 727 and rear gear is to be decided. I've got a 426 M block stock bore, stock crank, bare 2780559M heads. Missing a few rods and pistons so if stroking is best I'm gonna need to order parts any way.

So it seems I've got a blank canvas to work on so now is the time to decide. I'd like to be within the 1500-6500 rpm range, want a distinctive idle, will be sticking to the dual carb setup. Is a stroker the solution? I've been told that the stock heads flow well enough for a stout street hemi. I am looking for combination recommendations, i.e. displacement, compression ratio, cam selection, intake and carburetor as well as exhaust.

My first Hemi build so I need to look for the wisdom of this forum. Thanks! Oh and yeah I am likely to take it to the track every once in a while.
 
I'll be following your thread, as I am also starting into a very similar build, 1st Hemi.
Mine is the M block, with a complete balanced stock bore & stroke, all new, never ran. Heads are Mopar aluminum, look to have been on a break in run, or minimal usage. Came with a complete X-Ram set up, but I think I will be using a Street Hemi set, for more drivability. Plan to take completely apart to inspect, probably order new cam to fit my build, hydraulic roller, and maybe replace all internals for a stroker build. Kind of siding towards 4spd. It will depend on availability, and cost to replace.
 
I too will be keeping an eye on this thread. As I've posted before. My '69 GTX is an outstanding candidate for a performance upgrade to a hemi build. The car is really not close to numbers matching. (In fact, fender tag say D32 auto trans. But car has an 18-spline A833 4-speed. As well as a Dana 3.54:1 rear where I believe an 8 3/4" should have been from factory. Someone over 30 years ago made this car from at least 2 GTX and some Sport Satellite body panels that I can see. Original owner as well as 2nd owner to the guy I bought from have past years ago. #1 issue with this build plan? I also have not built or even owned a Gen II hemi. #2? How does one pull a very good running period correct 440 for "Hemi Bling?" Not sure about your talents? I'm very capable of screwing up! (Quick walk around vid of car as it sits today)

Researching and remembering discussions from the past? One belief was that the RB block (Including Hemi) was a little under stroked for its deck height? Thus building a stroker (Especially with today's options) seems logical? But of course the deeper one goes? The less real streetable it becomes? I would be very interested on other's thoughts and experiences. With the understanding that a hemi build is truly a different animal than a Wedge build. Perhaps the now classic 472 build? Which I believe gets engine to 9.0-9.5:1 compression? A safe street build?

 
Last edited:
Cojohnso1 said:
I too will be keeping an eye on this thread. As I've posted before. My '69 GTX is an outstanding candidate for a performance upgrade to a hemi build. The car is really not close to numbers matching. (In fact, fender tag say D32 auto trans. But car has an 18-spline A833 4-speed. As well as a Dana 3.54:1 rear where I believe an 8 3/4" should have been from factory. Someone over 30 years ago made this car from at least 2 GTX and some Sport Satellite body panels that I can see. Original owner as well as 2nd owner to the guy I bought from have past years ago. #1 issue with this build plan? I also have not built or even owned a Gen II hemi. #2? How does one pull a very good running period correct 440 for "Hemi Bling?" Not sure about your talents? I'm very capable of screwing up! (Quick walk around vid of car as it sits today)

Researching and remembering discussions from the past? One belief was that the RB block (Including Hemi) was a little under stroked for its deck height? Thus building a stroker (Especially with today's options) seems logical? But of course the deeper one goes? The less real streetable it becomes? I would be very interested on other's thoughts and experiences. With the understanding that a hemi build is truly a different animal than a Wedge build. Perhaps the now classic 472 build? Which I believe gets engine to 9.0-9.5:1 compression? A safe street build?

Click to expand...

Dang I don't know. To me your car is a screaming candidate for a 440 six pak build. Remember the 440-6 is known to give a Hemi a run for it's money.
 
Why not give Ray Barton a call. I have a 472 Hemi, 354 Dana and 5 speed Tremic and the cam he gave me had about 550 lift and has been very streetable for the last 15 years. This was along time ago but after about 10,000 street miles still runs good. Maybe Auto might need different specs than stick.
 
tonysrt said:
Why not give Ray Barton a call. I have a 472 Hemi, 354 Dana and 5 speed Tremic and the cam he gave me had about 550 lift and has been very streetable for the last 15 years. This was along time ago but after about 10,000 street miles still runs good. Maybe Auto might need different specs than stick.
Click to expand...

I’d second that, I got a 540 Hemi from Ray, KB block, Edelbrock heads, Molnar crank and rods, 10.5 Diamond pistons, Barton’s rocker system. The cam that’s in yours sounds like about the same as in mine. Great guy to work with and very knowledgeable.
 
Road Rat said:
I’d second that, I got a 540 Hemi from Ray, KB block, Edelbrock heads, Molnar crank and rods, 10.5 Diamond pistons, Barton’s rocker system. The cam that’s in yours sounds like about the same as in mine. Great guy to work with and very knowledgeable.
Click to expand...
Now did you guys build it or did Ray Barton build it for you? I really want to build it myself
 
Cudatali said:
Now did you guys build it or did Ray Barton build it for you? I really want to build it myself
Click to expand...
When you say "Build." Do you mean machine work and everything? Or just assemble? I farm my machine work out. Travis of Knowltons Thunderheads here in central MN in my opinion is the best Mopar head machinist around. Has expanded to race engine building.

http://ktrestore.com/
 
Cudatali said:
Dang I don't know. To me your car is a screaming candidate for a 440 six pak build. Remember the 440-6 is known to give a Hemi a run for it's money.
Click to expand...
That thought has certainly crossed my mind. But still a Wedge build. A hemi was available for GTX in '69. 440-6 was not. (Not that it really matters that much at this point?)
 
Cojohnso1 said:
When you say "Build." Do you mean machine work and everything? Or just assemble? I farm my machine work out. Travis of Knowltons Thunderheads here in central MN in my opinion is the best Mopar head machinist around. Has expanded to race engine building.

http://ktrestore.com/
Click to expand...
I mean assemble, Yes machine work would be farmed out and to someone who's knowledgeable with the Hemi. I know there are several little mods that are done for improvements which I would want to take advantage of as well, in applicable for my use.
 
Cojohnso1 said:
That thought has certainly crossed my mind. But still a Wedge build. A hemi was available for GTX in '69. 440-6 was not. (Not that it really matters that much at this point?)
Click to expand...
I didn't realize that. Then yeah why not, go HEMI!
 
Ray built it, but you should talk to knowledgeable people on what will work for your end result wanted. And machine work done correctly is very important.
 
Cudatali said:
I didn't realize that. Then yeah why not, go HEMI!
Click to expand...
Yeah. In '69 440-6 was only available to A-12 RoadRunner and/or Superbee. (Even Charger didn't have that option.) By 1970? All B and E bodies had the option. But as I mentioned. It's not really relevant to a non-numbers matching build. So I hope the gang keeps posting ideas and options here?
 
I would say start with a goal for power or et/mph and build it to meet that goal.
 
It depends on how violent an engine you want and how much you're going to drive it. Right off the bat, yes you want to stroke it, the question is how much.
I've had Hemis since 1980 and I've raced and driven every one I've owned.
It costs the same to build a 472 bottom end as it does a 572 (well, pretty much). IMO you can utilize stock unported heads like your M's or Stage V and get really good, streetable results with a 472 or 528. A 572 can utilize a bit bigger ports.
If you want an easy 11 second car and drive it almost like a daily on the street complete with not all that bad of fuel mileage I would build a 472. I built a 472 for my 66 Hemi Coronet and what a nice car it was. 3.23 rear, stock hemi convertor, carbs, intake, exhaust system and small solid lifter camshaft. I always ran street tires so never got a good slip at the track but with street slicks it would have been a mid 11 street car.
After that it's how fast you want to go and how much fuel you want it to use if you go on a 500 mile highway run.
If you only want a high 12/low 13 car you can build a stock 426. The reason I prefer the 472 is it utilizes the head flow better on the street. The 472 brings down the powerband 1000RPM or so. So rather than coming alive at 4500 the 472 will start getting serious at 3500. It doesn't sound like much but trust me on the street it works alot better. The old thing where the 440 jumps out on you at the light won't happen if you know how to peddle it off the light without lighting the tires.
I like about 10.5-1 compression with aluminum heads (depending on camshaft of course).
 
Runcharger said:
It depends on how violent an engine you want and how much you're going to drive it. Right off the bat, yes you want to stroke it, the question is how much.
I've had Hemis since 1980 and I've raced and driven every one I've owned.
It costs the same to build a 472 bottom end as it does a 572 (well, pretty much). IMO you can utilize stock unported heads like your M's or Stage V and get really good, streetable results with a 472 or 528. A 572 can utilize a bit bigger ports.
If you want an easy 11 second car and drive it almost like a daily on the street complete with not all that bad of fuel mileage I would build a 472. I built a 472 for my 66 Hemi Coronet and what a nice car it was. 3.23 rear, stock hemi convertor, carbs, intake, exhaust system and small solid lifter camshaft. I always ran street tires so never got a good slip at the track but with street slicks it would have been a mid 11 street car.
After that it's how fast you want to go and how much fuel you want it to use if you go on a 500 mile highway run.
If you only want a high 12/low 13 car you can build a stock 426. The reason I prefer the 472 is it utilizes the head flow better on the street. The 472 brings down the powerband 1000RPM or so. So rather than coming alive at 4500 the 472 will start getting serious at 3500. It doesn't sound like much but trust me on the street it works alot better. The old thing where the 440 jumps out on you at the light won't happen if you know how to peddle it off the light without lighting the tires.
I like about 10.5-1 compression with aluminum heads (depending on camshaft of course).
Click to expand...
Excellent information, I figured the stroker would help make the power band more street friendly. Great explanation from your experience.
 
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