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451 or 496 Stroker?

Bigtime

Bigtime

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Hello to All,
I am contemplating the replacement of the 383 in my Dodge with a professionally built 451 or a 496 stroker engine.
I would like your opinion of these engines, your good or bad experiences, advise which of the two that you prefer & why, etc. Just any comments that you'd like to make
You guys are a WEALTH of information for this "ole Geezer!"
As always, thanks.....
 
Both good. Both same money.
Get the big one.
 
Yeah, What he said ^^^^^
I ran a 451 in a 65 Belvedere,did 2 Hot Rod Power Tours long hauling.Put about 30,000 miles on it.
Then put a automatic and 4.10 gears and drag raced it for the 2006 season.Ran 11.90's in NSS/E. Then pulled the engine and put it in a 73 Cuda and did the long haul again in 2007. 14 years later it's still going in the Cuda and just was lead car in the owners wedding 3 weeks ago.Best engine ever.
 
I think of the 2 I’d prefer the larger bore longer rod combo of the 451. That said I’ve never had a 496 but am now just putting the 2000’th mile on my new 451 and am very happy with it! Plenty fast, lots of torque, reasonable on fuel when you keep your foot out of it, which is kinda hard to do….
 
I have a '70 383 magnum engine and have toyed with the idea stroking it either 451 or 496. I understand the rod length to stroke ratio is somewhat more desired in the 451 setup. But aside from that, with everything else being identical, why would 451 be more powerful than 496?
 
I’ve got a .030 over 383 with a 3.9 inch stroke Eagle crank with 9.9:1 J&E pistons for 449 c.i. in my 65 Belvedere. Love it, pulls from 1000 rpm smooth as silk.
 
Ray70Chrg said:
I have a '70 383 magnum engine and have toyed with the idea stroking it either 451 or 496. I understand the rod length to stroke ratio is somewhat more desired in the 451 setup. But aside from that, with everything else being identical, why would 451 be more powerful than 496?
Click to expand...
Are you talking B-block to B-block? Or is it the 496 RB build? There is a stroked 383 (4.25" crank) 496 build. The stroked 383 to 496 is not leaving alot of piston left. I have not seen one. But I'm guessing longevity would have to suffer. If you are talking 400-451 vs 440-496? That's a much more fair comparison. If both built very similar? It is what you would think. The 451 will out 60' and get to its power band quicker. (Lighter package and rotating weight.) But the extra cubes of the 496 will run it down. Will it in time in a 1/4? Chassis type and setup will have alot to say. But all things being equal? Yes. In the end? There really is no replacement for displacement.
 
The op inquired about a 383 being stroked to 451 or 496. I'm asking Snakeoil24 why he says a stoked 383 to 451 will make more power than stroking to 496. Just trying to sort things out in case I chose to do the same. There seems to be a consensus, in all the threads concerning this very topic, that if you are going to stroke the 383 go for all the cubic inches you can get.
 
Ray70Chrg said:
The op inquired about a 383 being stroked to 451 or 496. I'm asking Snakeoil24 why he says a stoked 383 to 451 will make more power than stroking to 496. Just trying to sort things out in case I chose to do the same. There seems to be a consensus, in all the threads concerning this very topic, that if you are going to stroke the 383 go for all the cubic inches you can get.
Click to expand...
I probably shouldn't have referenced your reply. But the original. I'm guessing he meant 400-451 vs 440-496. (Can a 383 even be bored to 4.375 for a stereotypical 451? I wouldn't. I believe the 383 stroker with 440 3.75 crank makes a 438?)
 
Cojohnso1 said:
I probably shouldn't have referenced your reply. But the original. I'm guessing he meant 400-451 vs 440-496. (Can a 383 even be bored to 4.375 for a stereotypical 451? I wouldn't. I believe the 383 stroker with 440 3.75 crank makes a 438?)
Click to expand...
If you put a 3.91 crank in a 383 with .030 over stock bore, it comes out to approx. 451. 440 source offers a 3.915 crank for the 400 block to go to 470. If it fits in a 400 block, it fits in a 383 block. There is another company also offers a 3.9 crank, just can't think of it now. I am more inclined to do the 383 to 451 stroke because many praise it's drivability positives.
 
Remember, the longer the stroke, the shorter the engine life. What do want to use your engine for? Drag race? Go 496 and drive it like you stole it!!
Street duty? Build a quality 440 and enjoy it for many years to come.
 
Ironbuilt said:
Remember, the longer the stroke, the shorter the engine life. What do want to use your engine for? Drag race? Go 496 and drive it like you stole it!!
Street duty? Build a quality 440 and enjoy it for many years to come.
Click to expand...
That's why I'm stroking my 318 poly to 360 and not 390 - the optimum bore/stroke ratio is apparently 90% so I'm using a 3.58" stroke crank and not 4". I realise this is a big block thread but the principle remains the same.
I want my engine to be here for a good time and a long time :)
 
I have both a 400/451 and a 400/500. The bigger motor shows 50 more hp and ft.lbs. on the dyno. I don't feel the difference and actually think the 451 is quicker. If I would do it again, I would not go with the 500. Maybe a 470.....
 
Ray70Chrg said:
I have a '70 383 magnum engine and have toyed with the idea stroking it either 451 or 496. I understand the rod length to stroke ratio is somewhat more desired in the 451 setup. But aside from that, with everything else being identical, why would 451 be more powerful than 496?
Click to expand...
With the stereotypical 440 crank the 383 makes 438 cube not 451. 451 comes from 400 motor with 440 crank. If you want to add the cost of a new 3.9 ish crank you can get the 383 to 448?or449? I think. Stroke to rod ratio may be a concern to you
 
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I like the 400 based 470. I don't like the short pistons on the longer stroke versions. How much head are you planning on running?
 
Why the 451 is so legiondary is because back in the day? Custom grind stroked cranks were astronomically expensive. (Let alone piston selection to build a well balanced stroker motor.) Today? With Custom grind billet this and that? And with computer CAD that all but takes the guess work out of design? You can order everything pre-fabbed. Thus just needs assembly. This was not true in the early 70s when we were pushing the envelope on "How fast can we get these cars to run?"

My 10 sec 451 Duster back in 1975? Nothing would touch you short of a supercharged engine. And they of course didn't last long. Hell, it's fast today? I have lined up against a couple Hellcats. Once amber lit? Never saw them again. Numbers posted in Hot Rod magazine and what you see at a lonely day of test and tune at a local track? Are two different worlds. (Bigger meets and shows of course bring bigger builds. And more importantly? Better talents.)
 
My best race was on a lonely Sunday morning test and tune about 8 years ago at Rock Falls Wisconsin track. My first run was about 13 seconds solo. Just to warm up then do a quick check on valves. When ready to let it rip I did my burn out and began to stage. A primer brown '67 Chevelle was doing the same. I can see it was a kid. And two top of air cleaner housing just peaking out of a cut hood. Amber light lit and I let the two step launch button. Go. I hit 2nd gear and can hear that Chevelle's 454 screaming right on the side of my door. And he sat there the whole way down the track. Both cars ran same 10.30s. I won on a very slight hole shot. My Duster's 451 with its short tubed Hooker headers is loud. But so was that Chevelle. While driving back on the return road. The whole track guys came over with big smiles and thumbs up to both of us. The starter saying. "You two got our attention. That WAS A DRAG RACE." Once stopped one of the tech guys said "Both you ran at least 2 seconds faster than what was predicted." My friend who was helping said. "You two were so loud compared to anything here. Everyone stopped what they were doing to take a look. I of course walked over to the Chev's pit. And there was a 17 year old and his dad. It was his first run on a car he and his dad built in a home garage. And he did not embarrass himself to say the least. I got to watch his 2nd run right in front of me while I was in the water box. He destroyed a poor Mustang.

I know this story probably doesn't belong on this thread. But thought I would share a 451 moment. I have been in far bigger races. With even bigger wins. But that race did more for my love of the sport than any of the money stuff. When I was 17? I was no where near low 10s. Home built naturally aspirated muscle build against home built naturally aspirated muscle. It just doesn't get better than that.

ZomboDroid 27062021135616.jpg
 
I have to laugh at all the rod ratio/short piston talk.

Countless BBC’s are built every day that have a 4.25” stroke with 6.535” rods.
And they use pistons that are shorter than what you’d use in a B block with the same stroke and rod length(because a low deck BBM has a taller deck height than a std deck BBC...... 9.980 vs 9.800).

A 4.25 stroke/6.535 rod/1.320 piston isn’t even beginning to push the envelope in terms of rod ratio or piston compression height.
The rod ratio ends up the same as a stock 454, or a SBM stroker with stock length rods and a 4” stroke.

Personally...... I’ll take the cubes.
 
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