• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Hydraulic Roller Cam Winter Project

Houle #382

Well-Known Member
Local time
8:50 AM
Joined
Jun 13, 2014
Messages
317
Reaction score
188
Location
Hastings NY
I'm thinking about a winter project of installing a Hydraulic roller cam in my 440 RT 4 speed. Who has installed one in a 440 and what are the Pros and Cons over a Flat Tappet upgrade besides the cost. I'm looking at buying the best roller rockers and cam who sells the best setup ? Hughes Engine, Mancini Racing, Scott Brown anyone else ?
 
I personally like a matched set whoever you go with. I used Comp cams for cam n hydraulic roller lifters. You will need new Pushrods, I went w Smith Brothers. For rockers, I've heard most everyone swearing by Harland Sharp. Going to need a cam button, I used a nylon one, and a different distributor bronze gear. I think that's everything, but might have missed something. I like them because there's much less chance of wiping a lobe. Yes, high zinc oil is important but I think the steel on flat tappets nowadays is lacking too.
 
Add to the above. 3 bolt timing chain.

I have a hydraulic roller in my engine. If I was doing it again, I would do a solid street roller. The hydraulic roller lifters are heavy and are super susceptible to oiling issues unless your lifter bores are bushed or in really good shape. My lifter bores were in good shape when I put my motor together. I went with a the hydraulic roller without knowing much about them. I have since educated myself, and as they say, knowledge is power. I think you will find the majority of the engine people on here will suggest a solid street roller as well.
 
Before heading down the “HR” path....... do a little on line reading.

A google search for “hydraulic roller lifter noise” is a good place to start.
If nothing else, it should open your eyes to the notion that a HR cam isn’t always roses and unicorns.
At least then if you decide to move forward with it, and you end up with a less than blissful experience...... it won’t be an “If I had only known” moment.
 
Last edited:
Before heading down the “HR” path....... so a little on line reading.

A google search for “hydraulic roller lifter noise” is a good place to start.
If nothing else, it should open your eyes to the notion that a HR cam isn’t always roses and unicorns.
At least then if you decide to move forward with it, and you end up with a less than blissful experience...... it won’t be an “If I had only known” moment.

Well said.

If you are determined to go to a Roller setup ?
You may also wish to consider skipping the 'Hydraulic' completely..... in favor of a tight-lash street Mechanical Roller and skip the HR pitfalls specific to the BB Mopar Lifter Bore design(too short).
The tight-lash street Mechanical Rollers can run pretty much dead nuts quiet, and make more power anyway.
 
Well said.

If you are determined to go to a Roller setup ?
You may also wish to consider skipping the 'Hydraulic' completely..... in favor of a tight-lash street Mechanical Roller and skip the HR pitfalls specific to the BB Mopar Lifter Bore design(too short).
The tight-lash street Mechanical Rollers can run pretty much dead nuts quiet, and make more power anyway.

I run a tight lash (.014/.016) Bullet Solid Roller and it isn't too bad. It's a little over .700 lift and I use the .815 wheel Bam lifters with the pressure fed axles and so far so good. I don't have a ton of miles on it yet though so time will tell.
 
I run a tight lash (.014/.016) Bullet Solid Roller and it isn't too bad. It's a little over .700 lift and I use the .815 wheel Bam lifters with the pressure fed axles and so far so good. I don't have a ton of miles on it yet though so time will tell.

.700" Lift is probably not a Roller Cam Profile designed for extended Street driving usage ?

IMO....
If it calls for/requires 225+ Lbs Seat/Closed V/Spring pressure and 550 # V/Spring rates then high probability it's not "if" but rather "when" a V/Spring(s) begin to decline or go away under the rigors of continued street driving.... wherein when that happens it doesn't matter "what" or how good Parts were used.... things don't stay where they are supposed to and they crash together and break.
just say'in... "IMO"
if you are running those "as mentioned' above V/Spring specs on the street ? (225# closed and 550 # rate),
you are well advised to be vigilante in checking your V/Spring Pressures/Rates frequently.... and NEVER put any rpm to the engine for the first 15-20 minutes of operation from a Cold start, until the V/Springs have had a good chance to warm up/Thermally stabilize....
remember...
just because the Temp gauge comes up ?
The V/Springs are still dead nuts COLD because the only way they warm up is by conducting heat off the Head or warm Oil flowing over them.... and cycling those V/Springs alloys cold is a sure fire recipe for rapid tension decline then precipitating V/Train inconsistencies(breakage)

STREET Mechanical Roller Cam Profiles.... designed for extended STREET usage.... typically only require 160-175# closed V/Spring Pressures and 425-450# V/Spring rates....only slightly more than HR Cams..... but more importantly....
that is because the speeds/rates of Valve opening is maintained low enough to prevent V/Spring alloy fatigue across a far wider thermal range of operating temps ?
 
.700" Lift is probably not a Roller Cam Profile designed for extended Street driving usage ?

IMO....

STREET Mechanical Roller Cam Profiles.... designed for extended STREET usage.... typically only require 160-175# closed V/Spring Pressures and 425-450# V/Spring rates....only slightly more than HR Cams..... but more importantly....
that is because the speeds/rates of Valve opening is maintained low enough to prevent V/Spring alloy fatigue across a far wider thermal range of operating temps ?

Challenger340, I completely agree. It is definitely not designed for extended street driving but it is the compromise I am willing to live with. Bullet ground it for me with "softer" lobes to minimize as much of the stress possible when running this size cam on the street. I was commenting strictly from the noise aspect of this being a tight lash versus some other normal, larger lash cams I have run. Vital parts replacement are frequent and watched carefully in between updates. I tried to build it similar to what you would would to need to do for a dragweek motor. :)
 
I am also planning a rollercam project with my 440 street engine. Haven't decided between hydraulic VS solid. Had great experience with Comp Cams XE hydraulic roller in a Pontiac, but not sure with my Chrysler 440.
 
The V/Springs are still dead nuts COLD because the only way they warm up is by conducting heat off the Head or warm Oil flowing over them...

Interesting, I always thought the main component of heat in a valvespring was friction.
 
Obviously not everyone who installs a retrofit HR cam into a BBM has problems.
And some people have installed HR cams and lifters are are quite happy with them.

I just like to make potential buyers aware that there can be some issues........ and that having issues with them isn’t a “super rare” occurrence.
 
I am also planning a rollercam project with my 440 street engine. Haven't decided between hydraulic VS solid. Had great experience with Comp Cams XE hydraulic roller in a Pontiac, but not sure with my Chrysler 440.

I'm going with Scott Brown from Competition Components, He is the same guy I bought my current setup from and he didn't steer me wrong so I don't have a problem going back to him, he's a good Mopar guy.
 
The old 451 ran a Billet cams 252/252 duration 0.612" lift (With 1.6:1 rockers) and worked great on the street. I think valve lash was about 0.014"/0.016", maybe a hair tighter, and after the initial break-in the lash stayed pretty much the same for 10 years until an intake valve head snapped off the valve stem, and that could have been my fault for never checking valve spring pressures.
I did a Comp Cams Hydraulic roller cam, and it was more expensive that a solid, spring selection is really important, and on... In the end I wasn't impressed. It was not quiet, The Bullet Street roller cam was pretty quiet.
 
Obviously not everyone who installs a retrofit HR cam into a BBM has problems.
And some people have installed HR cams and lifters are are quite happy with them.

I just like to make potential buyers aware that there can be some issues........ and that having issues with them isn’t a “super rare” occurrence.


EXACTLY !
as long as guys are "aware" that HR's can potentially be problematic in a BB Mopar ?
I'm guessing here....
but imo ? I think probably 60-70% install/run just fine with no problems ?.... it's the rest that don't or experience at least some "problems" that sometimes they aren't even aware of for the most part ? and in the worst cases guys end up chasing their tails to no avail.
As long as people are AWARE that an HR in a BB Mopar can be problematic ? then knock yourself out as you see fit OK ?

And as I've said before.... if you are still in the 'planning' stage and have the Bare Block you intend the use ?
Roll it over and assess with a Flashlight the Bottom of the Lifter Bore "WEAR POINT" between the Oil Gallery and the bottom ?
SEE that 'half moon' ?
 
I have no problems with my retro-fit hydraulic roller other than how expensive the cam/lifters/springs/retainers/3-bolt cam gear timing set/Bronze oil pump drive/cam button... add up really quick
I was just thinking it would be quieter, and require less valve lifter pre-load adjustments. Which it may in the future? In my case I have adjusted the lifter pre-load a few times (once because of changing rocker arms). If you are going to adjust the pre-load at just 0.010" or so, you likely will need to check the adjustment as much as lash on a solid roller cam. I have mine set for 0.040" preload and have the rev limiter set to 6,000 RPM. I'm not sure how much RPM I can throw at the engine, and don't want to until I have more dyno data. I used the ISKY 8005A valve springs, 400# rate with steel retainers to keep costs down a bit, but it is said the pricy beehive springs should allow more RPM?
 
I'm thinking about a winter project of installing a Hydraulic roller cam in my 440 RT 4 speed. Who has installed one in a 440 and what are the Pros and Cons over a Flat Tappet upgrade besides the cost. I'm looking at buying the best roller rockers and cam who sells the best setup ? Hughes Engine, Mancini Racing, Scott Brown anyone else ?
Pros 15 hp Cons lots to break.
 
Pros 15 hp Cons lots to break.

Only time you have issues is if you get to aggressive with the cam for a street car which I don't plan on doing. I'm looking at a cam with 238/246 duration with 575 lift nothing crazy but better than what I have now
 
Only time you have issues is if you get to aggressive with the cam for a street car which I don't plan on doing. I'm looking at a cam with 238/246 duration with 575 lift nothing crazy but better than what I have now
Do me a favor learn more only if that makes sense.
 
Do me a favor learn more only if that makes sense.
Do me a favor, read up how long Ma Mopar has been installing Hydraulic roller cams in their cars with virtually no issues. I have many friends with HellCats and Demons and they don't drive these cars easy and they never have had an issue so what's the issue with installing one in a older car or don't you really know and just feel like adding a stupid comment !
 
Auto Transport Service
Back
Top