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Down the rabbit hole ...

Skytrooper

Skytrooper

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Ok, as a professed transmission idiot...I get more than a tad confused when it comes to buying a torque converter.

The information seems limitless; stall speed, 9,9.5,10, 11 inch? Weighted or not? Is my engine internal or externally balanced ?
There are so many variables. I didn't get to drive my car enough before 3rd gear went bye-bye, but it didn't seem to be sloppy or slipping. Then again, as an idiot...what do I know.

I just want as close to stock as I can get for a 1971 charger R/T, 440 magnun 4bbl, automatic.

I do not have a fortune to spend, so north of $300 is going to be tough for me. As it is I have to save money to be able to pay for the trans rebuild. That will be a couple of months of saving (3 ish).

P.S. I will not be racing (street or otherwise) this car, just a cruiser.
IMG_2004.jpg
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Camera angle is bad in the measurement photo. It is 12"" not including ring gear. I see that mine does have weights, two on face and two spot welded to outside.
 
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You're in luck.... the same people who build for the best racers here, can supply you with restoration converters as well. I personally would start with A&A or Cope Racing Trans, but there are countless others as well.
 
You've got company here. I have the same problem. My 3rd gear (racing built) auto went bad 3 months ago. I know a guy who can & will rebuild it and it will only cost approx. one kidney from me. He has built nothing but racing autos his whole life & Has a lift in his home garage. However, he is in his 70's and too old to remove the trans and won't let me do it on his lift. I measured & I don't think that I can get my car high enough to remove it myself. I have a deep sump pan, headers, 3" exhaust, etc...Also, this time of year, it's too damn cold & getting colder & I'm a geezer myself. Have to wait till spring. I wish I could just convert it to a modern overdrive trans or a 5 speed manual overdrive type. I have 3.91's out back so anything would help. Keep me posted and good luck; misery love's company! :(
 
Have you guy's tried adjusting the third gear band's. Or checked the portioning valve. Their are kit's to rebuild those 727 trans. An old guy showed me how to rebuild one year's ago. If bearing's and all are good and just replacing the gut's then stack off the part's as they come out on top of each other. Then do the revers as installing them. Had rebuild manual trans. Before and was not Up on automatic ones. Know their are other guy's here that have done some their selves and may have more info. Check with Brewer's they are good people.
 
Thanks, I wish it was that easy. Trans was built for racing & I have no specs at all. It has a reverse manual valve body, B&M shifter & God knows what else. I don't even know what torque converter is in it. The old trans guy test drove it with me & says the at least a clutch pack is gone & a few other associated items. I don't recall the other possible things he mentioned. It always "grabbed" gears when shifting, almost like popping a clutch on a manual tranny. I have had it for almost 12 years now. I have a 3.23 sure grip to install as well which would make cruising easier on the engine & my wallet. This guy comes highly recommended by several reputable people that I know.
 
To the OP: just pick up a rebuilt stock converter at your local trans shop.
Mike
 
Skytrooper said:
Ok, as a professed transmission idiot...I get more than a tad confused when it comes to buying a torque converter.

The information seems limitless; stall speed, 9,9.5,10, 11 inch? Weighted or not? Is my engine internal or externally balanced ?
There are so many variables. I didn't get to drive my car enough before 3rd gear went bye-bye, but it didn't seem to be sloppy or slipping. Then again, as an idiot...what do I know.

I just want as close to stock as I can get for a 1971 charger R/T, 440 magnun 4bbl, automatic.

I do not have a fortune to spend, so north of $300 is going to be tough for me. As it is I have to save money to be able to pay for the trans rebuild. That will be a couple of months of saving (3 ish).

P.S. I will not be racing (street or otherwise) this car, just a cruiser.
Click to expand...

If there is nothing wrong with the torque convertor you have...run it. It doesn't sound like it is what gave up.
multimopes said:
You've got company here. I have the same problem. My 3rd gear (racing built) auto went bad 3 months ago. I know a guy who can & will rebuild it and it will only cost approx. one kidney from me. He has built nothing but racing autos his whole life & Has a lift in his home garage. However, he is in his 70's and too old to remove the trans and won't let me do it on his lift. I measured & I don't think that I can get my car high enough to remove it myself. I have a deep sump pan, headers, 3" exhaust, etc...Also, this time of year, it's too damn cold & getting colder & I'm a geezer myself. Have to wait till spring. I wish I could just convert it to a modern overdrive trans or a 5 speed manual overdrive type. I have 3.91's out back so anything would help. Keep me posted and good luck; misery love's company! :(
Click to expand...
Usually a floor jack will get the car high enough. Get GOOD stands and pull it out. Lift is on my wish list as I get older, but I've lost count how many cars we had dropped the tranny out the bottom.
 
I measured the distance from the pan to the floor & from the top of the housing to the floor and the height of the ramps I have and it don't look too promising. It's too cold now anyway, I want to be able to start the engine & warm it up every couple weeks over the winter as I always have done.
I feel bad that I seem to be hijacking Sky's thread here.
Here's to you Sky, and good luck!
:drinks:
 
multimopes said:
I feel bad that I seem to be hijacking Sky's thread here.
Here's to you Sky, and good luck!
:drinks:
Click to expand...

No worries Mate !! I should be in FBBO jail for all the threads I have hijacked !! When I see a thread that is even slightly related to what I am doing, I ask questions.

I did do some research. The TQ I have is 12" (the photo is a bad angle), and it is weighted/balanced). I have a local guy with a Daaco 10 inch near me. He wants $150, but it has no weights. So, I do not imagine that it will work for me.
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IMG_2005.jpg
IMG_2006.jpg
IMG_2007.jpg
IMG_2008.jpg
 
The worse thing from my perspective is removing the starter! Even though mine is a mini, the freakin headers are very tight. I hope to God I don't have to undo those from the head! I recall possibly having to drain the cooling system too and maybe having coolant leaks at the head later; a possible nightmare issue. I have never even seen my converter. Thanks for the pics!
 
blue69runner said:
Have you guy's tried adjusting the third gear band's. Or checked the portioning valve. Their are kit's to rebuild those 727 trans. An old guy showed me how to rebuild one year's ago. If bearing's and all are good and just replacing the gut's then stack off the part's as they come out on top of each other. Then do the revers as installing them. Had rebuild manual trans. Before and was not Up on automatic ones. Know their are other guy's here that have done some their selves and may have more info. Check with Brewer's they are good people.
Click to expand...
I thought the third gear ran through the front and rear clutch only. There is a low/reverse band, and the 2nd gear kickdown band but no band for third.
200-Chrysler-A727-clutch-and-band-application-table.jpg
 
multimopes said:
The worse thing from my perspective is removing the starter! Even though mine is a mini, the freakin headers are very tight. I hope to God I don't have to undo those from the head! I recall possibly having to drain the cooling system too and maybe having coolant leaks at the head later; a possible nightmare issue. I have never even seen my converter. Thanks for the pics!
Click to expand...

I have all the same issues. I had to remove the headers to remove mini starter and to gain clearance to the transmission. They will NOT be going back on ! I bought some log manifolds that will work much better for access to things like the starter and spark plugs. I just finished sandblasting them yesterday and applied 3 coats of VHT Flameproof ceramic manifold paint. I think they look pretty nice. Cost me a whopping $75 + paint.

IMG_2009.jpg


Look at that, I hijacked my own thread !
 
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I did forget to mention in OP that I did not have the Kickdown Linkage adjusted properly. The damage is all my fault. Transmission guy will let me know what he finds.


He just called ! He says it doesn't look too bad. Nothing broken. Rear clutch, and a warped servo....and some other stuff.
 
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Mine doesn't even have a kickdown linkage, LOL! Cable only from shifter to trans! I don't think I would go back to stock manifolds either as my engine has a mild roller cam; (don't know the spec's) and because mine has 3" stainless exhaust. If I could buy them I would go with a set of Doug's stainless Tri-Y headers which from what I have seen, leaves as much or more room than stock to access plugs, starter, steering box, etc.....
 
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So, the new questions are:
Do I even need a new TQ ?
If so, than would it have to be balanced (externally balanced engine) ?

I am just supposing that I have an externally balanced engine since I have a thick Harmonic Balancer on the front and that the TQ was balanced.
 
Photon440 said:
I thought the third gear ran through the front and rear clutch only. There is a low/reverse band, and the 2nd gear kickdown band but no band for third.
Click to expand...

You are correct. Bands are for holding things back, and clutches allow reduction during SLIP. In third gear, bands are not applied and clutches are applied, causing the entire planetary train to spin as one unit, 1:1.
 
Skytrooper said:
So, the new questions are:
Do I even need a new TQ ?
If so, than would it have to be balanced (externally balanced engine) ?

I am just supposing that I have an externally balanced engine since I have a thick Harmonic Balancer on the front and that the TQ was balanced.
Click to expand...
Well, it depends on who you ask. One school of thought is that if you simply flush it out you will be fine. Run with it.
The other school of thought is there is no way to see what kind of crud is left over in the torque converter. All this crud will make its way into your freshly rebuilt transmission. Do you want that?

I am not 100% sure of your application. It seems like you have an externally balanced motor. If that is the case, then you must EITHER get a torque converter meant for external balance with a standard neutrally balanced flex plate OR get a neutrally balanced torque converter with a external balanced flex plate.
 
Skytrooper said:
So, the new questions are:
Do I even need a new TQ ?
If so, than would it have to be balanced (externally balanced engine) ?

I am just supposing that I have an externally balanced engine since I have a thick Harmonic Balancer on the front and that the TQ was balanced.
Click to expand...

Ok, sorry.... So, a new torque converter is not going to bring back third gear. The trans will need overhauled...depending on what is found to have been the cause, you may or may not even need a new converter. If you do, then it will need to have balance weights like the one you show, and you may need a trans shops help with that. Do you know details about your cars drivetrain build?? Meaning, is it all original? Maybe a pic of that front balancer will help us determine. HTH, Lefty71
 
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