Least $ power steering box ?

68 Sport Satellite · Mar 24, 2022

417guy said:
I got the steering all buttoned up and took a short test drive today. WOW it drives like a new car. Great on center feel, and still good assist. Money well spent. Texted Mr Bergman with a couple of questions as I installed. His answers were very fast and helpful. Great customer service. I’m happy I spent the extra $ over a rebuild of the old box !

We REALLY appreciate the post-install driving report. Thanks for that. Since I haven't had the chance to drive a car with the Bergman/Borgeson setup, can you tell us if the steering effort/feel is as heavy as rack and pinion or in-between that and a firmed up stock box setup? I'm running Firm Feel Stage II stock box rebuild and have always thought about the Borgeson box, but if it's as firm as a rack and pinion (which I'm aware is still lighter feel than full manual steering), I'm not a fan for street duty.

furyus · Mar 24, 2022

Wietse said:
Just a question, if ordering the steering box does it come with the 2 M16 fittings for the hoses?
A local shop here in Europe has the box, hose kit and coupler as individual parts but did not see any mentioning incl. fittings.

I put the Borgeson box on my 64, and it was way more involved than the Firm Feel box that I put on my Dart. I had to go with the Bergman pump, and the larger of the 2 box fittings. I also used a pressure hose for a 69 Dart. I also shimmed my box to straighten the angle of the column.

Wietse · Mar 25, 2022

furyus said:
it was way more involved than the Firm Feel box

You have to do more, but you also get more IMO.

What fluid did you use?
I read somewhere they recommend proper power steering fluid instead of ATF.

furyus · Mar 25, 2022

Wietse said:
You have to do more, but you also get more IMO.
I am using power steering fluid. I'm saying that the installation was a bitch sorting out all the little issues.
What fluid did you use?
I read somewhere they recommend proper power steering fluid instead of ATF.

Wietse · Mar 28, 2022

I also ordered mine from Summit, incl Borgeson coupler and hoses.
Also added a Derale fluid plate cooler to avoid heat issues.

Just seen another topic with the Borgeson box with issues on hard steering, seems like the wrong fluid is in use...

Edit: Borgeson recommends AcDelco 10-5073 powersteering fluid

417guy · Mar 30, 2022

Wietse said:
I also ordered mine from Summit, incl Borgeson coupler and hoses.
Also added a Derale fluid plate cooler to avoid heat issues.

Just seen another topic with the Borgeson box with issues on hard steering, seems like the wrong fluid is in use...

Edit: Borgeson recommends AcDelco 10-5073 powersteering fluid

I used power steering fluid from Oreilly.

417guy · Mar 30, 2022

68 Sport Satellite said:
We REALLY appreciate the post-install driving report. Thanks for that. Since I haven't had the chance to drive a car with the Bergman/Borgeson setup, can you tell us if the steering effort/feel is as heavy as rack and pinion or in-between that and a firmed up stock box setup? I'm running Firm Feel Stage II stock box rebuild and have always thought about the Borgeson box, but if it's as firm as a rack and pinion (which I'm aware is still lighter feel than full manual steering), I'm not a fan for street duty.[/
The driving experience is less effort than my wife’s Acura , with a little more steering wheel movement for the same amount of direction change. It’s a little less firm than a 2019 Ford F-150. But SO much better than a original 1968 worn out Mopar box. I have never driven a firm feel or a steer and gear rebuild, so can’t tell you exactly how it compares.

Wietse · Mar 30, 2022

The FF and Steer & Gear units have a more firm steering.
It just steers a little heavier so you get a little bit more feel (feedback) but for the rest nothing else.
My S&G box had the sloppy center since installation, which disappointed me as I was under the impression that would have been removed.
Seems like a lot of guys here do not notice this, but growing up with the modern feel cars this is a "biggy" for me as it just makes you feel uncomfortable driving higher speeds.

417guy · Mar 30, 2022

68 Sport Satellite said:
We REALLY appreciate the post-install driving report. Thanks for that. Since I haven't had the chance to drive a car with the Bergman/Borgeson setup, can you tell us if the steering effort/feel is as heavy as rack and pinion or in-between that and a firmed up stock box setup? I'm running Firm Feel Stage II stock box rebuild and have always thought about the Borgeson box, but if it's as firm as a rack and pinion (which I'm aware is still lighter feel than full manual steering), I'm not a fan for street duty.

In response to your question of how firm it is…I drive a 2019 Ford F-150 crew cab daily. It’s rack and pinion. My roadrunner feels just a little more assisted than the truck. My wife drives a 2018 Acura TLX, it has more resistance than the roadrunner and the truck. But it’s a great car ! It likes curvy roads. The on center, straight ahead feel of the roadrunner is a great feeling on the highway ! I also have QA1 upper control arms, 11/16 tie rod ends, solid steel tie rod adjusters, welded lower control arms. Subframes and torque boxes welded in. The old car is stable as I can make it.

417guy · Mar 30, 2022

furyus said:
I put the Borgeson box on my 64, and it was way more involved than the Firm Feel box that I put on my Dart. I had to go with the Bergman pump, and the larger of the 2 box fittings. I also used a pressure hose for a 69 Dart. I also shimmed my box to straighten the angle of the column.

I considered shimming the Borgeson box to straighten the angle of the box to steering shaft, but would have to put at least a couple washers behind the box on the bolt at the drivers side. My thought was the box would not sit flat on the K frame mount, and torquing the other 2 mounting bolts would have stressed the casting too much. Bergman says his coupler is well within spec even though it does have more angle than I would like. I’m gonna look at the column mount to the firewall and see if I can cheat a little there to help it run straighter. How much and what did you use to shim your box ?

furyus · Apr 2, 2022

417guy said:
I considered shimming the Borgeson box to straighten the angle of the box to steering shaft, but would have to put at least a couple washers behind the box on the bolt at the drivers side. My thought was the box would not sit flat on the K frame mount, and torquing the other 2 mounting bolts would have stressed the casting too much. Bergman says his coupler is well within spec even though it does have more angle than I would like. I’m gonna look at the column mount to the firewall and see if I can cheat a little there to help it run straighter. How much and what did you use to shim your box ?

I just put a couple washers, like you said. I used loctite.
I can't understand why they keep making the boxes with the incorrect angle. They've known about the problem for years.

68 Sport Satellite · Apr 3, 2022

417guy said:
In response to your question of how firm it is…I drive a 2019 Ford F-150 crew cab daily. It’s rack and pinion. My roadrunner feels just a little more assisted than the truck. My wife drives a 2018 Acura TLX, it has more resistance than the roadrunner and the truck. But it’s a great car ! It likes curvy roads. The on center, straight ahead feel of the roadrunner is a great feeling on the highway ! I also have QA1 upper control arms, 11/16 tie rod ends, solid steel tie rod adjusters, welded lower control arms. Subframes and torque boxes welded in. The old car is stable as I can make it.

Thank you so much for the comparison with the truck and Acura. I used to drive a stick shift 2007 Acura TSX. It had power assist rack and pinion and felt pretty stiff. I'm glad to know the Borgeson is a bit less than that but still really good. I may just get one of these yet!

Least $ power steering box ?

68 Sport Satellite

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Wietse

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furyus

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Wietse

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417guy

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68 Sport Satellite

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