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Z D D P

BB BELLA said:
Risloni with a splash of zambuca!

if the motor is built right you shoudn't need snake oil!
A friend had a 77 camaro never changed the oil for the entire time he had it 60K miles when he sold it!
last time i had a diesel built the builder told me use only mobil 1 for him to honor the warranty! I used 5/40 castrol for 5yrs. and then T6 for the last 6yrs. and it's still running, probably because he put the wrong pistons in 19/1's ,motor should have had 23/1's idiots i tell ya!I should have realized the problem right off the bat when the oil cooler ports were different size!motor was for a van not an HD truck! It smoked on start up since day one and he told me is wasn't broke in yet! I replaced every external componenet on that motor and it still smokes on start up! took me a while to figure it out, i was a green horn on diesels, just like him [the pro]
Click to expand...
It's all about flat tappet cams. If we all ran a rollers we wouldn't need zinc.
 
Wietse said:
Interesting read. (from 2012)

https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33547
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting that article, read it and was glad to find out that Valvoline VR1 ( silver) is highly rated and also additives can lead to less protection. I have used this oil and not used additives because of the recommendations from some on the site here. Was surprised to see Royal Purple was rated in the lower ranks.
 
Ray70Chrg said:
Thanks for posting that article, read it and was glad to find out that Valvoline VR1 ( silver) is highly rated and also additives can lead to less protection. I have used this oil and not used additives because of the recommendations from some on the site here. Was surprised to see Royal Purple was rated in the lower ranks.
Click to expand...
Remember the article is from 2012 and some of the oil formulations may have changed.
 
I just use Rotella T6 full synthetic 10-30 n 10-40 depending on which vehicle, Cummins truck, 4.6 DOHC turbo jet boat, 496 BBM stroker, air cooled 1250cc 100hp hardtail, '79 Suzuki 750 n '08 Kawasaki Concours 1400.
 
Nate S said:
There’s a difference between break in and ongoing running. Also a difference between high lift and stiff springs and a stock 304.

Metals have become better in general with exceptions in China sometimes. These cams aren’t mainstream any more, expertise has gone down and we’re generations away from the engineers who designed them initially and learned all the lessons the first time. The ZDDP was put in there for a reason way back when. The oil needed to work in all cars under all circumstances, not just an already broken in 304.
Click to expand...
It was rebuilt (twice) and broke in with
low level ZDDP oil, and none added.
No cam/lifter failures for over 100,000
miles. The cam and lifters used are Comp.
 
toolmanmike said:
It's all about flat tappet cams. If we all ran a rollers we wouldn't need zinc.
Click to expand...
Enginelabs had an article that mentioned "The same sheering protection you need for flat tappets you also need for the distributor drive gears."

As for the original post, the guys on The AMC Forum have similar discussions about using zinc that we do. That's where I found the above quote.
 
Ray70Chrg said:
Thanks for posting that article, read it and was glad to find out that Valvoline VR1 ( silver) is highly rated and also additives can lead to less protection. I have used this oil and not used additives because of the recommendations from some on the site here. Was surprised to see Royal Purple was rated in the lower ranks.
Click to expand...
I think we need to be careful with studies that are done by non-scientists.
I watch tool reviews sometimes, and some of the tests done don't make any sense for the way tools are actually used.
Engine lubricants seem to be a very complex topic.
 
moparedtn said:
1994 was the beginning of the phasing out of zinc from motor oils - turns out, it doesn't get along
well with emissions controls (catalytic convertors).
Click to expand...
This is the only reason not to run high zinc oil. Any engine that doesn’t have catalytic converters benefits from the zinc. The newer motors may not require it but it does help lubricate.
 
69a100 said:
I've been using a bottle of STP at every oil change since I can remember and have NEVER had a problem! I'm sure some jack-rod will give me a red X. If it's good enough for Andy Granatelli and a race car, it's better for me to use on a street driver! I even throw a bottle in on a new motor for break in, never had a problem!
Click to expand...
Unless the formula for STP has changed since the 70's that shits just like pouring heavy syrup into your engine pan and there is where it will remain. Just because Andy advertises it for his premoters doesn't mean he actually uses it.
If someone told you corncobs made good *** wipe would you use them?
I rebuilt to many engines back in the day where oil pan replacement was the norm. Bet you can't guess the one common denominator.
 
Stumper said:
This is the only reason not to run high zinc oil. Any engine that doesn’t have catalytic converters benefits from the zinc. The newer motors may not require it but it does help lubricate.
Click to expand...
Very true - it's just insurance even in those designed not to require it.
 
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When my brother bought his new 1970 GTX in 1969, he took it in to the dealer for oil changes for awhile. They always used 1 quart of Mopar engine oil suppliment with the oil. Any of you old timers remember that stuff? I have a can of it somewhere. It said something on the label about anti-scuff for hi performance engines. I'm sure it was loaded with ZDDP. So apparently, they thought this was a good idea back then when the oil was still good. The GTX had 30,000 miles on it when he traded it off. The 440 was wore out-he drove it like he stole it! Here is a couple pictures of it today. I was 12 years old and played hooky from school and went along with my brother when he ordered it, when they called him to say his car was in, I played hooky again. So I could ride in a brand new 1970 GTX. This is the car that brought me to Mopars. He traded this in on a special order 1972 Challenger Rallye 340, Hemi Orange-he still has this car today.
 
A test done here many years showed a lot of expensive brand name oils...failed. This was just one test, known as the Timken OK load rating test. A roller is held in place, immersed in oil, & a rotating load placed against the roller. The roller becomes damaged after a while. The length of the scar on the roller & the force reqd to produce it are measured. Some semi syn oils outperformed their syn cousins!! Mobil 1 did worse than Mobil semi syn. Other poor performers were Shell Helix, Gulf Western, Fuchs, Motul, Elf, Castrol R syn, Red Line, Penrite HPR.
Oils that did better: Pennzoil GT, Valvoline Duroblend.
Equal first place was Penrite syn & Royal Purple R51.
 
Geoff 2 said:
A test done here many years showed a lot of expensive brand name oils...failed. This was just one test, known as the Timken OK load rating test. A roller is held in place, immersed in oil, & a rotating load placed against the roller. The roller becomes damaged after a while. The length of the scar on the roller & the force reqd to produce it are measured. Some semi syn oils outperformed their syn cousins!! Mobil 1 did worse than Mobil semi syn. Other poor performers were Shell Helix, Gulf Western, Fuchs, Motul, Elf, Castrol R syn, Red Line, Penrite HPR.
Oils that did better: Pennzoil GT, Valvoline Duroblend.
Equal first place was Penrite syn & Royal Purple R51.
Click to expand...
Once again, I think we have to be careful how we view and interpret oil tests.
The test mentioned above may be the most important for engine oil, or it may be more important for gear box lubrication. As amateurs, how do we know?

Another way to put it is, the oil may be the absolute best at wear prevention for 1000 hours on this test, but when exposed to combustion blow by, degrades rapidly?

I have more experience with steel testing, and can tell you that depending on the use of the steel, there are normally several different tests that are used to predict performance. If you just look at one of those tests you won't get the proper picture.

I think for most of us the most important quality we are looking for from our oil is durability. We are running gasoline as a fuel. We have extended periods of idling. Flat tappet cams with higher than stock valve spring pressures.

I like the fact that Joe Gibbs / Driven oil was developed to solve the same problems we are dealing with. Torco, Penngrade, and others seem to be of similar quality.

I just don't think that the average guy is going to be able to make up a better formulation by watching You Tube testing.
 
I agree with the semi-syn or blend! Mercury marine went to a semi a few years back in the 25/40 and 20/50 grade! I was running the merc. full syn in the 496 and thought "blend" now?
if it works for a 1650HP engine there putting warranty on that runs for hrs. at wot. it's good enough for me!
 
BB BELLA said:
I agree with the semi-syn or blend! Mercury marine went to a semi a few years back in the 25/40 and 20/50 grade! I was running the merc. full syn in the 496 and thought "blend" now?
if it works for a 1650HP engine there putting warranty on that runs for hrs. at wot. it's good enough for me!
Click to expand...
You have to look at the materials used to build an engine like that. Can you afford the same parts? Why would anyone expect the same results from parts the normal person can afford? Also oil test are meaningless unless they take into account the engines they will be used in. Clearances, bearing types and internal components all need to be taken into account. Those that are constantly looking at brass parts failures need to look at the oil used before blaming the part. I would think the same would apply to bearing make up as well.
That's why ma Mopar speced an oil additive for it's high performance engines that used a different bearing compound than it normal run of the mill engines.
 
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