• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Valvetrain clatter/noise

Sounds like you got things under control. Slow and steady, one problem at a time. Sorry the 4/3 threw me. I never used 3 groove on a 4 groove valve. Times and procedures change. I’m learning new things as this ship plows onward to a bright sunrise. Lol I get poetic at night.
 
Gunner1 said:
Sounds like you got things under control. Slow and steady, one problem at a time. Sorry the 4/3 threw me. I never used 3 groove on a 4 groove valve. Times and procedures change. I’m learning new things as this ship plows onward to a bright sunrise. Lol I get poetic at night.
Click to expand...
Me too...I'm a bona-fide Edgar Allen Poe
after midnight and a couple beers....
 
Oh heck I just saw where your from. It’s was the Martians that messed it up. They did weird experiments on your motor over the last 20 years.
 
100% that shaft needs replacement, but a lot of times there are more issues resulting in failure of machinery.
Focussing on 1 obvious find and assuming that is causing all the trouble sometimes gives a surprise later on as there was still something else wrong that was overlooked due to the obvious things that were found.
This has caught me several times until you learn to not focus too much on 1 thing only, not so much on engines as my job keeps me occupied on heavy industrial machinery combined with hydraulic systems over the last 15 years.
I am just looking for that potential other thing that could be overlooked just now, just trying to help and not to be a "wise guy" or so.

Since you find that push rod punctured the rocker, i wonder why only that (specific) one and what put that strain on it to cause the damage?
Since there is hydraulic pre-load, and should have sufficient space "below" so it does not bottom out in the lifter.
Since damage on the rocker shaft is at the end (cyl #1 or #7 end?), you would expect issues there.
Cyl #3 sits between 2 other shaft support stands there would be less or no effect.
 
Wietse said:
100% that shaft needs replacement, but a lot of times there are more issues resulting in failure of machinery.
Focussing on 1 obvious find and assuming that is causing all the trouble sometimes gives a surprise later on as there was still something else wrong that was overlooked due to the obvious things that were found.
This has caught me several times until you learn to not focus too much on 1 thing only, not so much on engines as my job keeps me occupied on heavy industrial machinery combined with hydraulic systems over the last 15 years.
I am just looking for that potential other thing that could be overlooked just now, just trying to help and not to be a "wise guy" or so.

Since you find that push rod punctured the rocker, i wonder why only that (specific) one and what put that strain on it to cause the damage?
Since there is hydraulic pre-load, and should have sufficient space "below" so it does not bottom out in the lifter.
Since damage on the rocker shaft is at the end (cyl #1 or #7 end?), you would expect issues there.
Cyl #3 sits between 2 other shaft support stands there would be less or no effect.
Click to expand...
100% agree. There's something going on with
#3 intake. Where the motor was before noisy
on both banks, it is now narrowed down to
a single cylinder.
I would never bite the hand that's feeding me,
and absolutely do not take any advice as
adverse. Every solution to the resolution
of this problem has been explored to this point.
Short of giving up, my plan is to fix this.
If you agree, the next step is to replace the bad
rocker shaft, rocker, and pushrod, then
measure for correct pushrod length.
Push comes to shove, instead of messing
around trying to get this motor right, I could
save up my pennies and get a crate motor.
Any and all advice offered is greatly
appreciated.
 
I don't know the costs of a crate engine at your side of the pond, here it will not be a penny saver. :)
Love the unlimited options you guys have there.

Since the valve stems are evenly high, that cyl #3 push rod length will require exactly the same length as any other cyl. My guess is even after replacing that rocker shaft you will measure the same since the length is determined by lifter (height) and valve stem height only.
You are running .050" pre-load, reduction of .015" due to the shaft being out of round would still be covered within the pre-load tolerance.

I did not find any stroke length of those HT-967 lifters, since you are at .050", i think they would be somewhere in the middle of the range, right?
Other issue could be the retainer is bottoming out against the valve guide but this you also checked already. (valve guide height measured from surface is same?)
Springs and push rods solved the rattle on the other bank, this side still is hiding something but ramming a pushrod through a rocker is an indication of binding up in the bottom or the pre-load disappears and it hammers? Or oiling problems, but that seems out of the question since the rest are fine.
 
Wietse said:
I don't know the costs of a crate engine at your side of the pond, here it will not be a penny saver. :)
Love the unlimited options you guys have there.

Since the valve stems are evenly high, that cyl #3 push rod length will require exactly the same length as any other cyl. My guess is even after replacing that rocker shaft you will measure the same since the length is determined by lifter (height) and valve stem height only.
You are running .050" pre-load, reduction of .015" due to the shaft being out of round would still be covered within the pre-load tolerance.

I did not find any stroke length of those HT-967 lifters, since you are at .050", i think they would be somewhere in the middle of the range, right?
Other issue could be the retainer is bottoming out against the valve guide but this you also checked already. (valve guide height measured from surface is same?)
Springs and push rods solved the rattle on the other bank, this side still is hiding something but ramming a pushrod through a rocker is an indication of binding up in the bottom or the pre-load disappears and it hammers? Or oiling problems, but that seems out of the question since the rest are fine.
Click to expand...
I find interesting that all of the old pushrods
(the solid bent ones) measured 9.298. Stock
pushrods for this setup are 9.317. The
difference being .015. Only two of the old
ones measured 9.317 on cylinder #5. Was
the builder trying to compensate for a part
he may have known was defective? Though
the old pushrods may have been within
preload tolerances, there's something about
#3. The shorter pushrods didn't punch thru
the rocker.
With the shorter pushrods, it was noisy on both
banks.
Also, if guide to retainer height were an issue,
why would he resort to using shorter pushrods?
 
Last edited:
The .015" difference could be wear also from 1000's of miles use, the 2 you found on #5 could have been replaced before as the builder found them bend or worn?
I think the builder would have sorted the issues if he knew about something being defective instead of compensating, right? (i know, you found many issues that now you may question anything)

Since you got the odd valve installed on #3, there must be something different there.
Did he use a different valve guide which sticks out higher from the head?
Is that valve spring retainer the same as others? Some have different heights, meaning the spring contact face is raised or lowered to accomodate spring installed heights. They seem the same though.
 
Love the debate....
The builder installed all new springs, retainers,
locks, exhaust valves, valve guides, and lifters.
He dressed up the original intake valves.
He also installed 16 pushrods (solid used),
and two new at .015 longer length. (ball ends)
on #5. (They all were noisy).
As a viable reference, I'm thinking a new shaft
should be installed along with a new rocker,
and pushrod length needs to be verified.
But I'm now paranoid about the hole in the rocker syndrom.
Thanks for putting up with me.
 
Feel a little embarrassed posting the following
pic. Don't know why, when I first saw this, that
I didn't think it would be a problem.
These rockers were not replaced at the time
of the rebuild. Rust is not your friend.
The socket for the pushrod was shiny and
smooth, but changing from a solid to a welded
pushrod creates a different wear pattern. The
ball grabbed more of the rust around the
socket.
20220503_133119.jpg
 
Last edited:
That rocker also has been in contact with a spring retainer by the looks of it, or does it look like that on the picture only?
That's Intake #3, right?
 
Wietse said:
That rocker also has been in contact with a spring retainer by the looks of it, or does it look like that on the picture only?
That's Intake #3, right?
Click to expand...
Yes, intake #3. The rocker shows signs of
retainer contact, but looks to be older damage
from the engine it was in before.
 
Little trick. When you replace the rocker assembly, find a paper clip. Straighten it out. Bend as needed to insert it between the rockers and the retainers. Do it as you cycle the motor thru it’s lift curve. That will tell you that you have approx .050 clearance. Easy peasy checking tool.
 
Retainers are closest when the valve is closed. No need to rotate. Just check it with the valve closed.
Doug
 
Yup your're right. I was thinking about some of the engines with self aligning rockers. Those have lips on the valve end that straddle the stem tip. Those can sometimes come in contact with the locks or retainers. Sorry too many motors in the memory banks.
 
Hey, all, an update.
Replaced all lifters (sealed power HT-976),
pushrods (9.315 stock length), 440 source HD stamped steel rockers and shafts. Oiling
holes point towards the valves. All valves
moving the same distance. All rockers tight
with no vertical movement. Good oiling up
top. Checked retainer to rocker clearance
(all good). Lifter preload average .040.
Fired the beast off and no longer have any
valvetrain noise. However, now have a slight
intermittent single cylinder missfire. I
suspect a cracked insulator on a plug as I
just found out my son dropped one.
(never reuse a dropped sparkplug).
We'll replace them and hopefully the
valvetrain noise issue is resolved.
Can't thank those who offered advice
on what to look for, enough.
If the intermittent misfire continues after
the plug change, there will be more
questions.....
 
Good to hear it seems solved.
Give it some running hours and check the valve train again to ensure all is still good, just for the state of mind.
Could double check the cylinder pressures, a sticky valve could be another reason for misfire.
 
Wietse said:
Good to hear it seems solved.
Give it some running hours and check the valve train again to ensure all is still good, just for the state of mind.
Could double check the cylinder pressures, a sticky valve could be another reason for misfire.
Click to expand...
Misfire cured after installing new plugs.
Dang, this thing sounds like a monster.
First time I've heard it run smooth with
no valvetrain noises.
Idling in the garage (in park) 950 rpm,
temp 190, oil pressure @50 psi.
Outside air temp at 92 deg.
It's a shame I've had to fix these problems
on a (newly) rebuilt engine. Thanks again
for the help and advice.
 
Geoff 2 said:
Were the plugs fouled?
Click to expand...
No, they weren't. My son dropped one when
he installed the last set. The insulator was cracked near the electrode, causing the
misfire. We just went ahead and replaced all of them. They hadn't been run long enough
to determine chamber conditions.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

72RobCharger
rebuilt 318 knock noise around 2500
2 3 4
Replies
65
Views
4K
72RobCharger
72RobCharger
79B100
318 Woes
2
Replies
35
Views
2K
dvw
dvw
79B100
318 Crank No Start
Replies
16
Views
1K
79B100
79B100
eagleone1983
Engine Noise and Roller Rocker Movement
Replies
19
Views
4K
BSB67
BSB67
LemonWedge
LemonWedge 470 build thread
15 16 17
Replies
331
Views
33K
Air grabbler
A
Auto Transport Service
Back
Top