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Max fuel pressure for Carter 3705 carbs?

I am going to say the rings are gone, had this happen on a stock car motor when we crashed and swapped the radiator, it ran a little hot and started smoking, compression was fine hell it won the feature, but the rings were done. We ball honed it in the car and it was back to normal for the next week. Gas wash down and overheating kills rings.

I haven't had any overheating but definitely gas washdown. Strange that compression is good though. I really don't want to pull the motor so will probably farm it out to a shop
 
1 other thing, it says they notched the block for valve relief, if they went too far the ring may be going above the notch, this assumes it is smoking all the time.
Yeah for max wedge valves to clear on a non max wedge block they need valve reliefs. But the car ran fine when I first got it home other than running rich
 
I see, compression is good so probably not the notch just look at it if you get in there and for slip ups if they used a grinder.
 
I have what might be an odd question, but with engine idling I went to pull the oil filler cap from the valve cover and noticed there is a lot of vacuum there, at least more than I think there should be. The oil filler cap is an air breather so I would expect some suction there but this will suck your hand to it? I wonder if I might have botched the intake gasket install? How much vacuum should one expect on an idling V8 engine at the oil fill cap/air breather or at the dipstick tube? For some reason I think this might be related to oil burning

Thanks
 
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I have what might be an odd question, but with engine idling I went to pull the oil filler cap from the valve cover and noticed there is a lot of vacuum there, at least more than I think there should be. The oil filler cap is an air breather so I would expect some suction there but this will suck your hand to it? I wonder if I might have bothced the intake gasket install? How much vacuum should one expect on an idling V8 engine at the oil fill cap/air breather or at the dipstick tube? For some reason I think this might be related to oil burning

Thanks


Can't give advice but that sounds excessive. The source should be the PCV set up
 
I have what might be an odd question, but with engine idling I went to pull the oil filler cap from the valve cover and noticed there is a lot of vacuum there, at least more than I think there should be. The oil filler cap is an air breather so I would expect some suction there but this will suck your hand to it? I wonder if I might have bothced the intake gasket install? How much vacuum should one expect on an idling V8 engine at the oil fill cap/air breather or at the dipstick tube? For some reason I think this might be related to oil burning

Thanks
Unhook the pvc hose and see if it still does that, without the hose there should be no suction.
 
Forrest,
When you say suction at the oil filler cap, you are sure it is suction & not the other way: pressure. Pressure would indicate worn rings, combustion pressure escaping past the rings.
I can only think of two things that would cause suction. Veeeery worn intake valve guides or the intake gaskets not sealing.

I alluded to this earlier: the gap between the intake & the heads. There is a fundamental difference between the alignment method of the max wedge intake & other intakes. Other intakes sit on the bathtub gasket & do NOT sit on the engine rails, front & back. If the heads or block have been machined, intake still sits on the gasket, although there might be problems aligning the bolt holes/port openings. But the gasket seals up ok.

The max wedge intake relies on it's underside to seal the engine rails, via the cork gasket. Heads or deck machined will reduce the gap for the cork gasket & using cork might prevent the main gaskets from sealing. This is one reason I recommended ditching the cork & using silicon to seal the gap.
So I would check these areas very carefully for gaps.

You said the float was hitting the baffle [ vertical tab ]. As I suggested earlier because you were using QJ needles, which I believe are shorter, this would explain this contact. The floats should not make contact if the correct n/s are used with a washer under the seat. A fix without buying new n/s is to add a washer [ or two ] under the seat if you have any.
 
Forrest,
When you say suction at the oil filler cap, you are sure it is suction & not the other way: pressure. Pressure would indicate worn rings, combustion pressure escaping past the rings.
I can only think of two things that would cause suction. Veeeery worn intake valve guides or the intake gaskets not sealing.

I alluded to this earlier: the gap between the intake & the heads. There is a fundamental difference between the alignment method of the max wedge intake & other intakes. Other intakes sit on the bathtub gasket & do NOT sit on the engine rails, front & back. If the heads or block have been machined, intake still sits on the gasket, although there might be problems aligning the bolt holes/port openings. But the gasket seals up ok.

The max wedge intake relies on it's underside to seal the engine rails, via the cork gasket. Heads or deck machined will reduce the gap for the cork gasket & using cork might prevent the main gaskets from sealing. This is one reason I recommended ditching the cork & using silicon to seal the gap.
So I would check these areas very carefully for gaps.

You said the float was hitting the baffle [ vertical tab ]. As I suggested earlier because you were using QJ needles, which I believe are shorter, this would explain this contact. The floats should not make contact if the correct n/s are used with a washer under the seat. A fix without buying new n/s is to add a washer [ or two ] under the seat if you have any.

Not using QJ needles. They are for a carter and match the originals exactly as far as height. The difference was in the attachment point of the arm to the floats, it was lower than stock.

It is definitely not pressure at oil fill, it is vacuum and feels like as much as what I measure on the actual intake. I will measure it tomorrow. I fear that changing the intake gasket by myself without using a cherry picker to help lower it might be the cause. Hard to lower it perfectly by yourself leaning over the engine compartment. Or I need a thicker gasket to give me more crush to fill the differences. I did not use the cork, I used right stuff as recommended by most everyone. But I think things may have shifted when I dropped the intake down and tried to get holes lined up.
 
When you test, pcv hose unhooked, vacuum port in intake plugged. With the hose hooked up to pvc the breather port should hold a piece of paper down, but not suck it in. An engine can still be worn and use oil with this test but is basically healthy.
 
Not using QJ needles. They are for a carter and match the originals exactly as far as height. The difference was in the attachment point of the arm to the floats, it was lower than stock.

It is definitely not pressure at oil fill, it is vacuum and feels like as much as what I measure on the actual intake. I will measure it tomorrow. I fear that changing the intake gasket by myself without using a cherry picker to help lower it might be the cause. Hard to lower it perfectly by yourself leaning over the engine compartment. Or I need a thicker gasket to give me more crush to fill the differences. I did not use the cork, I used right stuff as recommended by most everyone. But I think things may have shifted when I dropped the intake down and tried to get holes lined up.



Problem is, with as many things that you have changed now you don't know if this is your original problem or a newly added one
 
THe PCV check was just looking at the hose and valve for oil contamination. The potential problem with PCV are the aftermarket and what the bleed rate is. At idle it closes but the valve has an orfice that is suppose to be calibrated for the bleed rate or air into the intake. Yours might be excessive. You can alway restrict the flow with an adjustable pcv or your own orifice. Folks have give you good advice on how to test the vacuum.

If we go back to the beginning the car did not smoke and just poor carbs and leakage. As you resolved carb issue and changed distributor to get a satisfactory idle you developed the smoke. So given that you had a significant fuel leak into the motor you would think that the bore and rings did washout. It does not take long.

You since have removed manifold and so you may have disturbed the seal, just like the float got hung up. But if it was leaking it would have smoke from the beginning.

The valve seals should not be a significant leak unless they are bad and guide clearance really loose, but they too would have been bad to start.

You have the bore scope, look at the intake chamber at valve and also at exhaust if you can. Or plug oil fouled on specific cylinder.
You can also inspect the bore with piston down, might be able to see an issue.
H pipe balance flow and pressure pulses, but you should be able to distinguish a one sided leak. Is the exhaust temperatures back to normal on both sides?

I am with 4406 I think it probably is the rings/wall.
 
Did you ever figure out what is going on? Would be helpful to get some feedback.
 
Did you ever figure out what is going on? Would be helpful to get some feedback.
Still have the heads off. Head gaskets looked good, no signs of any issues in bores from rings, seals all looked good but replacing them anyways. The only thing I saw was one exhaust valve not closing all the way from carbon but cleaned up nice and lapped all the valves. Won't know much until I get her back together and will post the results.
 
Update. Heads back on, new seals, valves lapped, everything cleaned up. New intake and head gaskets, correctly torqued. Still smokes all the time. Not so much when first started but as soon as it is up to temp it is worse and stays that way at idle and at all speeds on a test drive. Everyone says it is oil rings. I still think it is fuel related because exhaust really does not smell like burning oil. But adjusting a mix screw on either carb a quarter turn is enough to stall, so I don't think it has an "extra" fuel supply at idle. Took a 5 mile test run, smoked the entire time. Pulled the plugs and they all seem the same. Pics are attached. I think odds are against all 8 oil control rings going bad at the same time and would expect a couple of the plugs to be very different if a couple oil rings were stuck or shot? Fuel system on the other hand affects all 8 cyclinders, but each carb only fuels one bank as far as I know on a max wedge intake.

At this point I am completely lost. Ran fine until I rebuilt the carbs. Then rebuilt a second set of carters and same result. Been smoking ever since. Carbs were rebuilt and use jets and rods recommended by Dvorak for a max wedge.

Shop wants 5500 for a rebuild and 3 month wait. Hate to do that and have it be something simpler that I am just missing?

Mancini wants 1700 for two edelbrocks and linkages that are set up to work on a max wedge, 6 week wait.

Hate to say it but if I knew of a decent dual four EFI system that will work on a crossram I might just go that route and see what happens. Can always get the carters restored later and go back to original setup

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Well that is a bummer. Can you borrow a sniffer that you can clip to the exh pipe exit & see what the A/F ratio is? That would at least tell you if it was super rich.
 
Yeah I don't know anyone with a sniffer. I would buy one but confusing when shopping as most are designed for connection to an O2 sensor welded into the exhaust pipe. The four and fiv gas analyzers are expensive. Can anyone recommend an A/F sniffer that works in the tailpipes?

Thanks!
 
Pretty sure Summit have them. I remember I was thinking of buying one a few years back, I think Innovate make them.
 
Plugs are wet, but I can't believe carbs and rich mixture is the issue causing smoke. Are you saying no oil residue at exhaust? Doesn't take a lot of oil to smoke. If the orig carbs after rebuild were washing fuel you can have cylinder bore wear. Doesn't take long. When heads were off did you inspect cylinder walls?
 
Here are links to some videos showing what I am dealing with if anyone wants to take a stab at the possible cause?

Here is a cold start. Exhaust smells rich like it always does, even on my old Polara, until it warms up. Notice no real smoke

https://www.isa1.net/forrest/COLDSTART.MOV

Here it is again once coolant reached 140 degrees. More bluish gray smoke, but still smells like fuel and not what I would expect for oil burning

https://www.isa1.net/forrest/140DEGREES.MOV

And finally here is what happens when thermostat opens at 180 degrees. More smoke (more than shows in the video) and it smells more sweet and like fuel than oil. It just billows out to the point where standing behind the car I can barely see the license plate. Again there is not really an oil smell, and when my wife walked though the cloud she said it smells like when a radiator overflows LOL. This billowy, gray blue white smoke is what I was getting after my test drives before I tore the top end down. Guess I should have had the heads checked for cracks, I did not see any but then again I was not looking for them.

Note when I say oil smell I am talking about when you get behind a car that is on it's last leg, or like when oil gets on mainfolds. Is that what oil buring in chambers would smell like out the exhaust?

https://www.isa1.net/forrest/THREMOSTATOPENED.MOV

I did run some k-seal head/block sealer through it but it seems to have not made any difference. No sign of water in oil.

All compression (wet and dry) tests and leakdown tests passed (but were done with engine cool enough so I could pull the plugs out between those monster manifolds.
Coolant combustion gas tests passed, both before and after the K-Seal treatment.


Plugs are wet, but I can't believe carbs and rich mixture is the issue causing smoke. Are you saying no oil residue at exhaust? Doesn't take a lot of oil to smoke. If the orig carbs after rebuild were washing fuel you can have cylinder bore wear. Doesn't take long. When heads were off did you inspect cylinder walls?
Cylinder walls showed no damage, scuffs or marks. Checked entire bores for each cylinder. No ridge at top. Can still see all hone marks. Supposedly there are only 2600 miles on this motor rebuild.
 
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