1965 Plymouth Satellite - Will not stay running

[Johnmj6363]

Howdy All,

I've been lurking in this forum for a while and I've finally decided to post. I thank you ALL for the info provided in this forum as it has helped me rule out a few things while diagnosing this beast.

The vehicle belongs to my elderly neighbor, trying to get it running so that I can use it in our wedding (any help would be greatly appriciated).

Specs:
1965 Plymouth Satellite
Auto Trans
273 V8 w/ 2bbl carb

New Parts:
Carb
Coil
Distributor
cap/rotor button/plugs/wires
Ignition Ballast Resistor
Starter
Starter Relay
Mechanical Fuel Pump
Fuel Filter

Issue:
Vehicle was running great. Distributor was replaced last spring by local shop. Vehicle ran fine all summer. Owner went to drive vehicle in the fall after sitting for a week or 2. It started up, backed out of garage, and died. Has not been able to keep it running since. Owner shipped carb off to be rebuilt and reinstalled, no luck. Owner replaced coil, no luck. Owner replaced ignition resistor, no luck. Owner replaced starter relay, no luck. Owner gave up and called me (I'm not sure why).

My first thought was the ballast resistor, but he had replaced that already. I was guessing an issue with the ignition system so I pulled a plug and checked for spark. It was there, but seemed weak to me. I used the info on this forum to check everything I could with ignition, all within spec. No OL when checking for resistance anywhere. No burn connectors at bulk head. Almost 7V exactly going to coil. Points look good. 12v to 7v on resistor. Check for voltage on ignition side of resistor with key on, less than .3V which I believe is fine. No issues found with ignition system, besides my apparent thought that the spark looked weak.

Onto compression, all cylinders testing between 100psi - 115psi. Not great, but not bad for a motor that's older than I am. I didn't bother using oil in the cylinder to test for ring wear and I thought the compression should be enough to make the engine run.

Onto Fuel. I had the misses hold the throttle wide open and crank the key while I sprayed brake parts cleaner (didn't have any starting fluid on me) into the carb with the air cleaner off. I told her to let go of the key and take her foot off the accelerator when it started to run. A few tries, and it's ALIVE (sort of). It runs VERY rough for 5-8 seconds and dies. I continue to try and get it running, the best I got was 10-12 seconds of rough idle and any adjustment to the throttle resulted in choking the engine out and it dying. It seems now that unless I spray external fuel right into the carb, it will not start (I'm worried I'm going to kill this guys new starter with how much I'm using it).

I know NOTHING about carburetors, I wanted to start by saying that. I feel I have narrowed the issue down to the fuel system, though I don't know why the vehicle would be running great and then all of the sudden one day it doesn't want to start or stay running at all. I really suspected ignition (and still think maybe timing) but I think I've ruled the ignition system out, and I'm not sure how it would have all of the sudden got so out of time it wouldn't run at all, but would for me with some fuel help.

The only thing I have been able to pinpoint on the carb is a leak, coming from the very bottom (see pic). I noticed a small fuel puddle building up on top of the intake manifold when I let it sit in the garage overnight. I can see a droplet coming off the bottom most screw, though I'm not sure this would stop it from running.

I've attached as many pictures of the engine bay and the only short videos I could capture while the engine was running, before it died.




PLEASE HELP! I'm not the most knowledgeable with these older vehicles, but my mechanical skills are strong and I'm eager to learn.

Thanks in advance,
- J

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I see the fuel in the filter.Does gas squirt in the carb when you step on the pedal? Verify your getting fuel in the carb. Let the starter relax after a long cranking session. If it runs when you spray it,,,,will run if it's getting fuel.

 

[Johnmj6363]

I see the fuel in the filter.Does gas squirt in the carb when you step on the pedal? Verify your getting fuel in the carb. Let the starter relax after a long cranking session. If it runs when you spray it,,,,will run if it's getting fuel.

Very strong jets of fuel from both side when pumping the throttle.

 

[66 Sat]

I know this sounds obvious but have you tried putting fresh gas in the tank? The low octane stuff doesn't seem to stay fresh for long.

 

[Johnmj6363]

There is 1/2 a tank in there now and it's 3 days old.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Do you have a spare coil to try?

 

[Johnmj6363]

Do you have a spare coil to try?

I do, but the current coil is testing great (except I don't know how to test the 20K volts that supposed to come out and go to the distributor with my 600V meter)

The coil that I have was 2-3 months old and the owner removed it and installed this new one when he couldn't get it to run / stay running

 

[Ron H]

The engine cranks so that rules out couple things. Does it have a strong turnover with no popping or misfiring? Does it pop or sound like a miss-fire when it runs for a few seconds? Any gas spewing from carb? Can the owner recall doing anything on his car between last spring and when he next drove it? While elementary, is the choke working correctly? Also check the distributor to ensure it is tight. Movement would throw off timing. Likely not an issue; but the location of the fuel filter isn't good...it should lay horizontal up on the intake. Just sayin. With all of these installs done...were they done by a knowledgeable person? I see you mentioned the distributor and maybe carb being installed by a shop; but the other parts? If not, a recheck of all wiring connections (proper connections) should be done. If a valve or cylinder is bad such as from carbon buildup, the car should stay running; poorly but running. Not sure what your reading was at ig/ballast you say .3 volts?

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Do the plug wire near ground test,how strong is the spark? DON'T hold the wire!

 

[peabodyracin]

As an aside, I've seen coils that will jump a spark plug in the atmosphere but won't fire under compression. You said the coil had been replaced though. This sounds almost like a cracked distributor cap.

 

[493 Mike]

Has it jumped time? Check TDC between balancer mark and rotor location.
Mike

 

[Johnmj6363]

The engine cranks so that rules out couple things. Does it have a strong turnover with no popping or misfiring? Does it pop or sound like a miss-fire when it runs for a few seconds? Any gas spewing from carb? Can the owner recall doing anything on his car between last spring and when he next drove it? While elementary, is the choke working correctly? Also check the distributor to ensure it is tight. Movement would throw off timing. Likely not an issue; but the location of the fuel filter isn't good...it should lay horizontal up on the intake. Just sayin. With all of these installs done...were they done by a knowledgeable person? I see you mentioned the distributor and maybe carb being installed by a shop; but the other parts? If not, a recheck of all wiring connections (proper connections) should be done. If a valve or cylinder is bad such as from carbon buildup, the car should stay running; poorly but running. Not sure what your reading was at ig/ballast you say .3 volts?

Very strong turn over. I have a battery charger set to jump start when I'm attempting to start it to ensure I'm getting 12V. I haven't noticed any popping to tinging, but when I say it's only idled VERY roughly for 12 seconds that's all I got out of it. No helpful notes from the owner besides what I mentioned. Please tell me more about hot to rest the choke and rule that out (I'm doing some research on my end as well right now.) Distributor is tight, and when I move the crank with a wrench the rotor moves right in toe, no delay or play from the distributor. Good note on the fuel filter, if I ever get the damn thing fixed I'll fix that for good measure. Shop is reputable, they got the car running last spring and the owner told me he drove it all summer without any hick ups. He bought the carb from some place in California with a lifetime warranty. He paid the $50 shipping and sent it to them when this issue started. They 'rebuilt' it and shipped it back. I'm assuming the carb is tuned correctly, but we know what assuming does. Anything I can start checking on the carb? There is a strong gas smell in my garage after it being there for 2-3 days, and it seems to be making a small puddle on the intake manifold. I plan on checking the torque on the carb mounting bolts tomorrow morning. All connections seems good, I've gone over them four it seems like now! I read somewhere on here to turn ignition on, hot side of multi-meter on POS terminal of battery and neg on ignition side of resistor. If you get anything over 1V to suspect bulkhead issue or ignition switch issue. The car passed that test, if it is an accurate test.

Do the plug wire near ground test,how strong is the spark? DON'T hold the wire!

I started by pulling the #1 plug, resting it on the block with the wire connected, and had a helper turn the key. It felt dangerous because if the engine did fire I'd have one cylinder without a plug in it. Luckily (or unlucky for me) it didn't fire. I got a spark for sure, but it seemed like a weak orange burst and I'm used to expecting a bright blue/purple 20K volt jolt (though I usually work on vehicles that are much newer so I don't know what to expect).

As an aside, I've seen coils that will jump a spark plug in the atmosphere but won't fire under compression. You said the coil had been replaced though. This sounds almost like a cracked distributor cap.

I thought cap as well, but it is brand new. I know N.E.W. sometimes stands for Never Ever Works, so I did a visual inspection of the cap and pictured it here. No issues (that this untrained eye) to see.

Has it jumped time? Check TDC between balancer mark and rotor location.
Mike

I do not know if it has jumped time. I spun the crank to where the line on the harmonic balancer lined up with the start of the metal identification tab on the passenger side of the balancer. When I pulled the cap the rotor was pointing at the number 1 cylinder. I know this isn't a true test because I could have been off, but I'm not 100% on verifying timing on this motor without it running and without a timing light (would I need to pull the front timing cover and use the marks on the crank and cam shafts to verify)?

As an aside, thank you so much to all the members who are posting here. I'm really enjoying working on this vehicle (though it is beginning to get frustrating) and all the help I can get I will take.

 

[66 Sat]

Mate when you check for spark use a spare spark plug and attach the ht lead to it - DO NOT REMOVE THE PLUG FROM THE ENGINE!

 

[Johnmj6363]

Mate when you check for spark use a spare spark plug and attach the ht lead to it - DO NOT REMOVE THE PLUG FROM THE ENGINE!

Noted.

 

[BeeKool]

Perhaps the carb gasket is bad.
Have you checked vaccum? Looks like you crossed just about everything else of your list.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Check here also.....don't ask how I know

 

[BeepBeepRR]

Put a jumper wire across the ballast resistor. See if it stays running.

 

[WileERobby]

Check the sock ( if clogged ) in the tank. Disconnect the fuel line from the carb, feed into a container, crank engine & see fuel delivery for possible air entry into fuel line.

 

[Steve009]

Maybe leaking gas is sucking in air and leaning it out until it stalls?

 

[Maxrat]

I agree with Steve009. Massive vacuum leak. Have you checked the tightness of the carburetor bolts? Have you checked the carburetor gasket? Are there any vacuum hoses that are cracked / disconnected? Are there any vacuum nipples not plugged? Runs briefly -- means it has spark.