1972 Satellite. All new parts and wires still same problem

Electrical & Ignition

  1. LEADDIN

    LEADDIN Member

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    1972 Satelite 360/automatic, Pertronix Ignitor, and a serpentine belt conversion that looks like it came off a newer MOPAR. When the car came in it had the original wiring harness powering the car. Original issue was had to turn the key to run then push a button to start. Customer orders a brand new American Autowire Power Plus 20 harness, brand new ignition switch, and a brand new ignition tumbler. I installed them I still have to push a button to start. I do NOT know how to bench test an ignition switch or an ignition tumbler. Or am I overthinking this dilemna.
     
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    • pnora

      pnora FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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      You need a FSM.
       
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      • 1 Wild R/T

        1 Wild R/T FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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        Why? The aftermarket harness has zero in common with what the factory supplied....
         
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        • pnora

          pnora FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          Why.....Really.......So he can understand what the component functions are and how they were wired so he knows what wires go where.
           
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          • Lefty71

            Lefty71 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            I would think you would have troubleshot the issue before ordering ANY new parts, but maybe just a wiring diagram for your car will help solve the mystery??

            Try MyMopar.com The wiring diagrams are specific for each car line. Good Luck
             
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            • R413

              R413 Well-Known Member

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              If you changed the wiring harness why is the push button still inside the car? You have to remove it and hook up the wires someplace else or it will keep working.
               
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              • LEADDIN

                LEADDIN Member

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                The push button was wired directly to the starter solenoid. The original harness was melted pretty good at the column connection and key areas. To me start with fresh(safe) wiring then diagnose. Customer was animate about changing column components. I did take the push button out of the system after putting in the new components. Car wouldn't start put the push button back for testing and it started. Took push button back off no start. I even tried switching the connections at the column no solution. More to the plot when I am turning the key my column blue wire which is wired to the coil is only on when I am in the run position. When I go to start I lose power. My column yellow wire turns on in start position but turns off in run position. I swapped those connections and then it would stay in start mode when in the run position.
                 
                Last edited: Jul 16, 2021
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                • MoparLeo

                  MoparLeo NRA BENEFACTOR LEVEL LIFE MEMBER FBBO Gold Member

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                  Did you also replace the engine side of the firewall wiring completely ? Always helps to get the full story. Your problems sounds similar to an underhood ballast problem with a standard ignition.
                   
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                  • 72RoadrunnerGTX

                    72RoadrunnerGTX FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                    What is the status of the starter relay? Is it present, inner fender near battery? The yellow wire from the ign switch runs to the starter relay primary positive, primary negative is then supplied by the neutral safety switch on the trans. The secondary side of starter relay activates the starter solenoid.

                    The blue wire (ignition 1) from the ign switch does in fact go dead by design while cranking. The ign switch brown wire is the ballast by-pass, supplying coil voltage while cranking. With aftermarket ign systems not running a ballast resistor, connect the brown and blue wires together to power the ignition while both cranking and running.
                    DSC09103r.jpg
                     
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                    • LEADDIN

                      LEADDIN Member

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                      I apologize I meant starter relay not starter solenoid when I was explaining where my push button was tied into. My starter relay is in the factory spot. I apologize for not explaining in full the wiring harness Power Plus 20 is a full car bumper to bumper harness. I am starting to think it is a NSS issue. After I get off work at my day job. I will walk over to my second job and take pictures of how I got it wired. I had to call American Autowire and ask how to wire the column and I think he steered me wrong. I am just now learning MOPAR electrical. Can I bypass the ballast on MOPAR when running the PERTRONIX Ignitor? I will be putting the car on the rack Saturday morning. Then I am going to go under the car and test the NSS. Can I test the NSS to see if it is good or not? I am glad y'all are patient and guiding me. upload_2021-7-16_16-16-46.png
                      What wire is the yellow wire tied into at the column? Cause I don't have anything plugged into that male spade with the new harness.
                       
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                      • 72RoadrunnerGTX

                        72RoadrunnerGTX FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                        Of the three pins on the NSS, the center pin grounds in Park and Neutral, open in all other gears. For diagnostic purposes, you can ground the NSS terminal on the starter relay, if you are getting voltage from the ign switch on the yellow wire you should get starter activation.
                         
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                        • 440 Charger

                          440 Charger FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                          Back to basics Spark first fuel next.
                           
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                          • LEADDIN

                            LEADDIN Member

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                            I finally got back to this project. I got spark and fuel. First thing I played with is I ran a jumper from the brown wire(ignition switch side,) to the "I" terminal at the starter relay and no start. I even ran a jumper from the yellow wire(ignition switch side) to "I" terminal and no start. Then I disconnected the the column shifter from the transmission and my reverse lights instantly came on. I need to adjust the linkage at the transmission. That is what I will work on tomorrow. Any help is always greatly appreciated.
                             
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                            • Wietse

                              Wietse Well-Known Member

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                              Using the picture given before for reference, on which connection is the wire installed that comes from the push button?
                              On the "yellow" connection or the "brown" one?


                              upload_2021-7-16_16-16-46-png.png
                               
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                              • kiwigtx

                                kiwigtx Henchman #4 Staff Member FBBO Gold Member

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                                :xscuseless:

                                Pictures of what you are working on will save 1,000 words here.
                                 
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                                • LEADDIN

                                  LEADDIN Member

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                                  Here are some pictures. The yellow wire under the column has a home I just have it disconnected for testing and I have to change the connector still. What is the box in the second to last picture?

                                  20210819_124025.jpg 20210819_124037.jpg 20210819_124209.jpg 20210819_124241.jpg 20210819_124254.jpg 20210819_124304.jpg 20210819_124353.jpg 20210819_124344.jpg 16294026963357961759082294696501.jpg
                                   
                                • 72RoadrunnerGTX

                                  72RoadrunnerGTX FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                                  Voltage regulator.
                                   
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                                  • 440 Charger

                                    440 Charger FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                                    That would be a Catastrophic converter.
                                     
                                  • LEADDIN

                                    LEADDIN Member

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                                    Here is the newest picture for under dash. I have a brown and a black wire that does not have a home. I also have "I" still open on the starter relay. The brown has power at start position only. Black must be a ground I have no power at all on that wire. I am thinking of putting a jumper on the brown wire and land it on "I" on the starter relay. Run a jumper from the black wire to a ground. Before I do that I would appreciate opinions. I am going to lift the car and see if adjusting the linkage helps. Owner brought me the transmission manual today. Now I can adjust.

                                    20210819_194505.jpg 16294283952422057703029231730340.jpg
                                     
                                  • 72RoadrunnerGTX

                                    72RoadrunnerGTX FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                                    First rule of thumb when working on old Mopars, never assume a black wire is a ground. On your previous shot of the starter relay, what is the purple wire connected to the solenoid terminal? If that’s lead from the yellow ignition switch lead, it should connect to the primary side of the relay, one of the lower terminals. Refer to the pic posted above.

                                    Brown wire ignition switch lead is the ballast resistor by-pass. If the black wire is a small gauge lead form the ignition switch, it likely is a later C-body switch, grounds while cranking, not used on a b-body.
                                     
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