318 runs fine then starts pinging, then floods w/gas and stalls-?

[YY1]

So... my 318 2 barrel has been running just fine since I got it.
I have it idling at 650 in drive, and it's pretty smooth- can balance a lighter on the air cleaner lid.

last weekend I changed the plugs. They (Autolite P66 @ 30) looked fine- light brown, dry, etc.
I put in Autolite 66 gapped at 35. Ran just like before.

Tuesday I siliconed the hell out of my a/c box gasket and surprise, suceeded in fixing the condensate leak.

Today, I'm driving around, enjoying the a/c, stopping at pawn shops to look for another high CFM compressor.
Kind of stop/start city driving, but hey, that's the way it goes sometimes.

On the return leg, it diesels really bad a couple of times- never done it before.
A couple times I shut it off in gear, so as not be embarrass myself.

It also seems to be pinging under moderate load sometimes.

I get back, almost home, and it stalls making the last turn, and won't restart.
I coast in, pop the hood, and gas is seeping out- between the carb and intake.
20 minutes later, I go out and after a little goosing, it fires right up, and runs fine for 10 miles, no pinging.

WTH??

I put a timing light on it (vac advance still hooked up) and it was at 10* breifly, then off the scale...in "P" at 1000 RPM.
In "D" it was dead on 0*.

Motor's says 0* with vac unhooked and plugged, and idle should be 750 in "N".
I don't think it would stay running in "D" if it idled at 750 out of gear, especially with the a/c on.

Any ideas? (besides setting the idle and timig to spec, which I'm trying right now)

Why would it just start acting like that and then clear up?

 

[mopar367]

318

Sounds like its getting hot, what was the temp at? What do you mean by dieseling? like running on when hot and shut off? Why don't you try setting the timing with a vacuum gauge, maybe your balancer mark is off, since it said was at 0 timing. Just a thought

 

[Hemi Rebel]

What kind of car? What year 318? If the timing is all over the place, your chain may be getting ready to give up. They factory cam gears have nylon/plastic on the teeth of the gear. When it gets old, it breaks apart and creates a lot of slack in the chain, allowing it to jump. Take the distributor cap off, using a ratchet and socket on the crank, turn the engine forward and backward. The distributor should move when the crank is being turned. If you can move the crank back and forth and the distribuor does not turn your chain is suspect. I wouldnt drive it till you check this. They can bend valves if it jumps far enough.

 

[RustyRatRod]

0* is ridiculous. I don't care what the book says. That was the spec back when gas was good.....even regular. Bump initial up to 8*. You'll have to idle it back down. It's running a little hot because of the retarded timing and percolating the fuel.

 

[YY1]

Well, I think I got it.

Set at 0*, if the vac adv got hooked up it would go to 10+, but wouldn't come back (even if I disconnected the vac).

I was able to twist the rotor/shaft and it did spring back, but...

I happened to have a reman dist for my temp 318 in the Coronet, and put that in.

I set it to about 5*, and when revved, it now comes back down to 0*.

It still shows about 8* in P or N at 900 RPM, with the vac hooked up, but it quit dieseling.

I got it idleing at 900 in P, and about 650 in D.

Kicking the a/c on takes it down about 50 RPM.

With the lights and a/c on in D it has a pretty serious discharge on the ammeter, so I wasn't comfortable going any lower.

I seem to remember different idle specs for a/c cars...

There appears to be some side to side play in the old dist shaft.
The springs looked good...

 

[YY1]

For the record, it'a 1973 with 54000 miles.

A chain isn't out of the question, but I think a bit early for that.

I'm having all the customary "39 year old car" problems and all the "car that doesn't get driven" problems, and the "car that hasn't been driven in a long time" problems, and preparing for the "car that has over 50000 miles" problems

I'm prepared for all that.

...at leat it's not got "car that has 110000 miles and wasn't maintained" problems

Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[YY1]

Hell, at 54K, it's only 4K out of warranty...right??

If it was 49K, I'd take it in...just as a joke.

 

[Hemi Rebel]

Hell, at 54K, it's only 4K out of warranty...right??

If it was 49K, I'd take it in...just as a joke.

Yeah, 4k miles and about 37 years out of warranty.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Glad you got it figured out. Almost sounds like one of the return springs might be broken.

 

[Ron 73]

Good you have it figured out, i was thinking it could have just had a piece of dirt in the carb that did work out, i had that happen and carb cleaner seemed to fix it.. And im still working out "the hasn't been run in a long time thing"! lol..

 

[383man]

Be aware that the fuel may have been causing a problem also. My buddies car did the same thing as it would start flooding when it was warmed up on real hot days. It would stall and then I had to hold the gas on the floor to get it started. Fuel was coming out of the boosters. Its because this cheap pump gas with more ethanol in it. The dist sounds like it fixed your ping but if it floods again and starts fine later you may have the pump gas boiling. I have seen it on 3 cars so for this summer. Ron

 

[YY1]

I still have some pinging, so I still have some adjusting to do, but the dieseling is gone.

I thought return spring- will have to dig in to the dist.

I also thought bad gas, as I did use Sunoco last time instead of the Racetrac I've been using. You'd think it would be the other way around.

There is a Citgo "no ethanol 89" on the corner, but it's $4.10 a gallon.
I used that for the first fillup, and keep it in my mower and the project cars.

 

[Garys1969RR]

I have my 451 ignition timing set at 20 degrees initial advance, 36 total. This with 12.5 to 1 C/R, and a 509 cam. But I am at 5200 feet MSL. The throttle response is great! Of course I using 100 Sunoco. But my theory is to run as much advance as the engine will tolerate without pinging. Up to about 38 deg max. Improves throttle response and torque in my engine. Good luck!

 

[Hemi Rebel]

I have my 451 ignition timing set at 20 degrees initial advance, 36 total. This with 12.5 to 1 C/R, and a 509 cam. But I am at 5200 feet MSL. The throttle response is great! Of course I using 100 Sunoco. But my theory is to run as much advance as the engine will tolerate without pinging. Up to about 38 deg max. Improves throttle response and torque in my engine. Good luck!

Just curious, how does it crank when warmed up? 20 degrees seems a bit much, but if it starts ok then rock on:headbang:

 

[67 coronet]

you could have carbon build up inside the combustion chamber.makes it a bitch to set timming and will cause pinging when the motor gets hot.(retains heat much better then iron and causes pre ignition of todays cheeper fuels)

 

[YY1]

Well I took it out and tried fine tuning "the old fashioned" way by loading it up to stall in gear and increasing the advance until it pinged, then backing off until it didn't.

And it was happy at... 0*!! (with the vac hooked up).

Even 1* more made it ping.

I didn't trust the vacuum cap I had to see what it was with the port plugged and no vac advance.

That was on 87 oct and with the a/c on.

It now idles at 800 in P/N, and 600 (550 with a/c) in D.

It does seem even smoother now than before all this happened.
I'll have to get the lighter out again.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Yea some times it sounds like a small block Chevy tryin to start when it gets warm after a hard run. It stops momemtarily when the plug fires, then keeps goin. But fine when cold it doesn't do it. I always spray water on the radiator after a run, with the engine running. Cools it down real fast. I have removed the thermostat to keep it cooler. Been a hot summer! These motors like alot of initial advance, I have found. Really helps low end torque. I limit the dist to about 16 degrees centrifugal advance. So I can then run more initial advance. It works well for me! C Ya

 

[Garys1969RR]

Hi YY1, well that motor is probably sealing compression really well, and you may have some carbon deposits built up. When they get a little on the warm side it aggravates pinging, dieseling knock etc. Thats why I run without a thermostat right now. With high compression you really have to be careful to prevent any heat build up at all. With a hot motor, any borderline ping issues will become major ping issues. Make sure the entire cooling system is in top condition. Maybe have the radiator rodded out-professionally cleaned. Also take your dist apart, clean and lightly grease all moving parts. This will make sure that timing returns to the initial setting at idle. Also check the vac advance diaphram, and make sure the advance plate slides back and forth easily. Hook a tube to it, suck on it then let the vacumn off. The plate should immediately move back to original position. Good luck!

 

[Hemi Rebel]

Any more issues with the fuel leaking from the carb?

 

[YY1]

Any more issues with the fuel leaking from the carb?

Haven't seen any, but I am getting a faint gas smell.
Not under the hood, but around the door area.
Might be pin hole rust in the fuel line (like the trans lines had).
Guess I'll have to crawl under it again.

I did just replace the rotted fuel lines at the filter.

With the timing set this way, it doesn't ping AT ALL, but move it one more degree, and it pings like crazy, just off idle.

There is no lag, so I think it's probably right.

I seriously doubt it's compression related at 8.5 to 1 or whatever.
Although, I'm sure it's got some carbon buildup from being "babied" by the two previous owners.