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440 500 build

Stubby

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muskego WI
Hey everyone I am looking for some info on a 500 stroker engine build. I called 440 source and asked them about a street motor set up for pump gas. They said to go with 27 dish pistons with stealth heads for a cr of 9.6 to 1. My engine builder is telling me to stick with flat top pistons and 78 cc 240 trick flows. 440 sources website says that set up will get 11.5 to 1. Im stuck on witch way to go. I have worked with my builder for years. He is a mopar drag racer for 40 plus years and has ran strokers for years. Any info would be great. Im going to call 440 source tomorrow and pick their brain..
 
For a street engine, go with what 440 source has recommended. An engine that has 11.5:1 compression will not run on pump gas
 
Personally I'd Fallow your Engine Builder, You Gotta trust he's pointing you in the right direction, Plus I like his combo Better anyway, Lol.
 
Hey everyone I am looking for some info on a 500 stroker engine build. I called 440 source and asked them about a street motor set up for pump gas. They said to go with 27 dish pistons with stealth heads for a cr of 9.6 to 1. My engine builder is telling me to stick with flat top pistons and 78 cc 240 trick flows. 440 sources website says that set up will get 11.5 to 1. Im stuck on witch way to go. I have worked with my builder for years. He is a mopar drag racer for 40 plus years and has ran strokers for years. Any info would be great. Im going to call 440 source tomorrow and pick their brain..


Don't they have a 17 cc dish piston? 10.8:1?
 
The cam choice also figures into this combo. I would trust my engine builder but that's just my 2 cents worth.
 
If it was my engine I'd use the Trick Flow heads and a dished piston and keep the compression ratio at 10:1 or lower. I have no idea what your engine builder is thinking, there is no reason to run that high of compression on a pump gas Mopar. The engine will make good power at 10:1 and should be safe on pump gas. The Trick Flow heads will make more power than the Stealth heads but they do have angled spark plugs so you'll need to figure out if your headers will fit. The Stealth heads have straight plugs so they work better with cast iron exhaust manifolds.
 
This is where static and dynamic compression comes into play with cam choice, but 11:5:1 does sound a little high for pump gas.
 
My 500" motor was flat top Ross pistons, 88 CC EDE Performer RPM 10.5 CR, fairly small Comp Cams solid. Worked just great on 92 pump gas. The cam selection does have a major impact on detonation. Lots of overlap will allow more CR. All depends on the combination. At 11.5 you probably need really good 92 gas. Think a little thicker head gasket.
 
Can you explain this? I don't see how overlap effects this.

Actually you have to look at the cam timing, meaning just where the valve closes on the compression stroke, because it is ABDC, not BDC or before. I too would wonder why such a high static comp would be chosen, but I can also see why the OP is asking before spending a bunch of $$$ on what could be a whim. HTH, Lefty71
 
Can you explain this? I don't see how overlap effects this.
Yep, I'm sure with you on that.

People, you need to think about when the intake opens and closes.

You start building compression when the intake closes. So I ask you. When does overlap occur?
 
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Combination of parts for the intended application is the key. 11.5 may be a little high. In this part of the country I'd stick to 10.5 to be safe. Thick head gasket could be the answer. Those Trick Flow's sure look nice. Good cam selection will make the combo work.
 
Going with a thicker head gasket is defeating the purpose of a quenched chamber. I ended up at 10.73 cr with 7cc pistons. 84cc quenched heads. 470 low deck.
 
Here’s a calculator I like to illustrate the difference. The possible increase in octane requirement and timing sensitivity isn’t really worth it for a minimal power increase. IQ52 proved all this if you go back and read all his exploits with low compression combos on the dyno...
8D6F92A0-309B-44DB-9AB0-6327423842AB.jpeg
 
Hey everyone I am looking for some info on a 500 stroker engine build. I called 440 source and asked them about a street motor set up for pump gas. They said to go with 27 dish pistons with stealth heads for a cr of 9.6 to 1. My engine builder is telling me to stick with flat top pistons and 78 cc 240 trick flows. 440 sources website says that set up will get 11.5 to 1. Im stuck on witch way to go. I have worked with my builder for years. He is a mopar drag racer for 40 plus years and has ran strokers for years. Any info would be great. Im going to call 440 source tomorrow and pick their brain..
Don't get in a big hurry. I almost always recommend you go with your engine builders suggestions. However, I see some red flags here.

He has suggested 240's @ 78cc and flat tops. Has that been calculated out by him yet? What compression ratio and cam has your engine builder suggested you run on the street?

I get that as possibly 11.7:1. I believe that is doable but rather an edgy number for a street engine. I've made 787 HP with 91 octane at that compression ratio with 50 less cubic inches. So, how much horsepower do you really need? 500 can be a bunch of fun.........and deadly.
 
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I don't know what kit you're looking at but they have a vast array of options to get a streetable compression ration. With aluminum heads, 10.5 is pretty much the limit for pump gas. Don't limit yourself to the "500" mark, look at the 505 and 512 kits as well.

Personally I'd decide which heads I want to use first then plan the kit based on the head volume of that particular head.
 
If it was my engine I'd use the Trick Flow heads and a dished piston and keep the compression ratio at 10:1 or lower. I have no idea what your engine builder is thinking, there is no reason to run that high of compression on a pump gas Mopar. The engine will make good power at 10:1 and should be safe on pump gas. The Trick Flow heads will make more power than the Stealth heads but they do have angled spark plugs so you'll need to figure out if your headers will fit. The Stealth heads have straight plugs so they work better with cast iron exhaust manifolds.

I’d also be in the 10:1 range if I were doing it, regardless of what heads were used.
 
Who says using Flat Top Pistons in a 493/496" BB Mopar absolutely has to be 11.5:1 static CR once the OP's builder is said/done/finished ?
Just say'in...
the OP's Builder may potentially have some plans here ?

I am NOT saying the OP may not wish to ask his builder around those plans if he is concerned ie: actual 11.5:1 static ? without any extra work.

Just say'in....
We run Flat Tops in 493/496" stuff with 80cc Heads ? it just gives us "room" to work, and we are usually down to 10.1:1 Static C.R. with the Flat Tops before we do our final on the Cam for Pressures/Dynamic C.R.

More than one way to skin a cat.... and keep in mind we are basically lazy so wouldn't do it without having found some benefits.
This could get very long winded so I will shut up now.
Just that in our opinion only:
* the sb 4.00" Bore .040" to sub .050" quench dimension is NOT optimal on a 4.300" plus Bore BB Mopar W/valves opening on the backside, especially with a dish.
* we think F.T. Pistons just provide all around better combustion than Dishes
* Cylinders should match the Head/Gaskets for valve unshrouding.
 
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Who says using Flat Top Pistons in a 493/496" BB Mopar absolutely has to be 11.5:1 static CR once the OP's builder is said/done/finished ?
Just say'in...
the OP's Builder may potentially have some plans here ?

I am NOT saying the OP may not wish to ask his builder around those plans if he is concerned ie: actual 11.5:1 static ? without any extra work.

Just say'in....
We run Flat Tops in 493/496" stuff with 80cc Heads ? it just gives us "room" to work, and we are usually down to 10.1:1 Static C.R. with the Flat Tops before we do our final on the Cam for Pressures/Dynamic C.R.

More than one way to skin a cat.... and keep in mind we are basically lazy so wouldn't do it without having found some benefits.
This could get very long winded so I will shut up now.
Just that in our opinion only:
* the sb 4.00" Bore .040" to sub .050" quench dimension is NOT optimal on a 4.300" plus Bore BB Mopar W/valves opening on the backside, especially with a dish.
* we think F.T. Pistons just provide all around better combustion than Dishes
* Cylinders should match the Head/Gaskets for valve unshrouding.
Yep, kinda why I was wondering what the builder was planning for a compression ratio.
 
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