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440 Cam Suggestions

69 Charger Mark

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I've got a 69 Charger 440, 4 speed, 3.55 posi, 800 cfm edlebrock carb, holly street dominator intake, stock heads, patriot 1 7/8 full length ceramic coated headers.

It's getting ready to go the body shop for much needed quarter panel replacements and paint. I've got to pull the engine so we can paint the engine bay and would like to freshen it up while it's out. I'd like to do the trickflow upper end kit won't have the money since it will all be going to paint an body. It will have to wait until I can do the engine the way I really want to which means running my stock heads.

However I had planned to do a budget rebuild while it's out and replace the cam, timing chain, rings etc. I'm looking at Comp Cams 274H 274 / 206 duration at .006 inch tappet raise 488 int / 491 exh, 230/236 degrees at .050 inches on the intake and exhaust lobs respectively along with the recommended hydraulic lifters and valve springs. I won't be using the roller rockers but keeping the stock rocker arms.

Based on my current carb, headers etc is there anything I need to lookout for. I'm not that technical so your advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks. ---------- Mark.
 
What pistons are you running? Compression is important choosing a cam.
 
What pistons are you running? Compression is important choosing a cam.
Not sure on the pistons. Won't know until I pull the engine and get the heads off of it. If I had to guess I'd bet they are stock. I had planned on reusing the pistons that are in it as I will not have money to spend on the engine at this time due to everything going into putting on new AMD sheet metal from the back bumper up to the rear glass.
 
Is it a 69 block original to the car? You could do a compression check for a rough idea what you have going on inside.
 
Is it a 69 block original to the car? You could do a compression check for a rough idea what you have going on inside.
Yes on the HP block. Before we pull it out we are going to do some baseline test. Compression hot / cold. vacuum etc. It sounds like it's got a very light tapping noise which I think could be a lifter but a buddy of mine thinks it something deeper in the block. Since it's got to come out to paint the engine bay this would be the perfect time to tear it down and see what the heck is going on. If I wasn't doing the paint and body thing right now it would be going to the engine shop that my local mopar club uses for a serious build. As it stands now I just want to make sure it gets back together with the cam upgrade that gives me a little more than stock and still let's me keep enough vacuum to run the power brakes. I'll do the serious build on the engine somewhere down the line.
 
if you cut the guides 702 or 703 lunati voodoo
or Howard
721141-08 CL721141-08 267 267 220 220 .506 .506 108 104 Hyd. Hyd. 1,15 1600-5400
Good low & mid-range horsepower. Needs 4 barrel & headers.

721941-12 CL721941-12 271 281 224 234 .518 .543 112 108 Hyd. Hyd. 1,15 1800-5400
Fair idle, Hot Street & mild Bracket Racing. Strong mid range.

720581-10 CL720581-10 277 283 230 236 .531 .547 110 106 Hyd. Hyd. 1,15

I'd pm RJform/S
he has tried every gear in the 4 speed with many axle ratios
you gear spread will also determine your rev range
stop and go driving or weekend cruzing
etc
the 15 means a real chrysler cam
note the three different LCAs 108-112-110
 
If it is to just get you buy until you can do the expensive build, I would not even pull the pistons out unless the rings are carboned up so bad they don't move, or are broken.
Caution if removing the pistons, it is easy to go down the rabbit hole at that point and end up at the machine shop boring the block and installing oversized pistons.
Really, even if you decide to do new rings on the stock pistons, let a machine shop remove the ridge and hone the block because most people mess this up, and the cost of the tools (ridge reamer and cylinder hone) will be close to the machine shop charge to do the work.

Most oil burning problems usually come from oil getting past the valve guides, and often on these old engines the valve stem seals hardened up and cracked off so just replacing the valve stem seals often cures oil burning problems.
Next check the bearings, and if they are not bad just leave the pistons/rotating assembly in the block.
I would get a new timing chain, and the cam lifters are likely worn, so I would do those, new gaskets and have the stock heads checked for valve guide wear, and valve seat sealing (lap the valves if the seats and valve are decent.) throw new valve stem seals and matching springs for your cam.
Replace the core plugs as they are usually rusted anyway. The put a high volume oil pump on it just in case the bearing clearances are getting a bit loose.
 
.......I would not even pull the pistons out unless the rings are carboned up so bad they don't move, or are broken.
Caution if removing the pistons, it is easy to go down the rabbit hole at that point and end up at the machine shop boring the block and installing oversized pistons.
Really, even if you decide to do new rings on the stock pistons, let a machine shop remove the ridge and hone the block because most people mess this up, and the cost of the tools (ridge reamer and cylinder hone) will be close to the machine shop charge to do the work.

Most oil burning problems usually come from oil getting past the valve guides, and often on these old engines the valve stem seals hardened up and cracked off so just replacing the valve stem seals often cures oil burning problems.
.

If there is nothing wrong with the short block, don't waste your money. If you want to add some meaningful power on the cheap, put a good set of heads on it.
 
If your pulling the heads off you can figure your compression by measuring how far the piston is down from the deck and cc your heads. You can buy the cutter for the viton valves at that point if you want to diy. We've got ours Comp cams cutters and arbors from summit. About 100 bucks.

The 69 hp 440 should be .045 or .050 below the deck so 9.5-9.6:1 w a .020 head gasket and 9.2-9.3:1 w a .040. The voodoo cams wyrmrider mentioned are mopar grinds and pretty hard to beat. With stock pushrods and stamped steel rockers probably .520 lift is about it. The stamped steel rockers are usually less then 1.5 at the valves. It's not hard to at least put bearings in, we've rerung a lot of engines most wouldve bored, but did what we had to do at the time. Taking anything apart can snowball into a overhaul, but there is only one way to find out and if it happens to be a matching numbers block, it's worth knowing vs taking a chance.
 
No way I’d assume a 50 year old muscle car engine without a known history would be ready for some street thrashing without taking it all apart and seeing what I had to work with.

After that....... then you can decide on where the $$$ needs to go.

How many times do you want to R&R the motor in that freshly painted engine bay?
 
His language suggest it was was running fine when get took it out. If it was, I wouldn't think twice about it.
 
= Post #8 = clean everything up and stick a big Summit cam in it, low dollars and it will run well.
 
No way I’d assume a 50 year old muscle car engine without a known history would be ready for some street thrashing without taking it all apart and seeing what I had to work with.

After that....... then you can decide on where the $$$ needs to go.

How many times do you want to R&R the motor in that freshly painted engine bay?

From the original post, I was thinking he wants to take the the engine out for paint and "freshen" the engine using a different cam, and put the engine back in the car for a short time. Later on when new heads can be afforded, to do a complete engine rebuild to work with the new heads?
 
If the engine has hp magnum springs and the heads are not coming off it would be much easier to leave the hp springs and keep the lift below .485 and find a different cam then a xe274h. Get a cam that didn't need heavier springs.
 
sure put a copy of a 50 year old chevy cam and expect great results
you would have to check those Magnum springs
most likely they are worn out
but if you do want to hold the lift down to say 480 there are great mopar cams with rolled over noses, dwell cams or even expensive DC cams- check Camcraft, Bullet even Engle
stock heads do not use high lift so no reason to use high lift springs and cams
but also no reason to use .842 lifter cams which tke much more duration to get even 480 lift thus killing your low end and gas mileage at the same time
most have too much exhaust duration if headers are being used
 
If it is to just get you buy until you can do the expensive build, I would not even pull the pistons out unless the rings are carboned up so bad they don't move, or are broken.
Caution if removing the pistons, it is easy to go down the rabbit hole at that point and end up at the machine shop boring the block and installing oversized pistons.
Really, even if you decide to do new rings on the stock pistons, let a machine shop remove the ridge and hone the block because most people mess this up, and the cost of the tools (ridge reamer and cylinder hone) will be close to the machine shop charge to do the work.

Most oil burning problems usually come from oil getting past the valve guides, and often on these old engines the valve stem seals hardened up and cracked off so just replacing the valve stem seals often cures oil burning problems.
Next check the bearings, and if they are not bad just leave the pistons/rotating assembly in the block.
I would get a new timing chain, and the cam lifters are likely worn, so I would do those, new gaskets and have the stock heads checked for valve guide wear, and valve seat sealing (lap the valves if the seats and valve are decent.) throw new valve stem seals and matching springs for your cam.
Replace the core plugs as they are usually rusted anyway. The put a high volume oil pump on it just in case the bearing clearances are getting a bit loose.
Thanks for the advice. I had planned to take it to the machine shop and just have them hone it out and go back with stock rods and pistons if the tolerances permit. Put new rings on it and the usual stuff. New timing chain, bearings, cam, lifters etc. I will have to keep the stock heads for now but will have them checked out. I talked with the comp cams guy and he suggested a milder cam than what i initially posted. I'm looking for something that give me more performance than stock but still lets me keep vacuum going to the brakes. Thanks for your feedback.
 
If your pulling the heads off you can figure your compression by measuring how far the piston is down from the deck and cc your heads. You can buy the cutter for the viton valves at that point if you want to diy. We've got ours Comp cams cutters and arbors from summit. About 100 bucks.

The 69 hp 440 should be .045 or .050 below the deck so 9.5-9.6:1 w a .020 head gasket and 9.2-9.3:1 w a .040. The voodoo cams wyrmrider mentioned are mopar grinds and pretty hard to beat. With stock pushrods and stamped steel rockers probably .520 lift is about it. The stamped steel rockers are usually less then 1.5 at the valves. It's not hard to at least put bearings in, we've rerung a lot of engines most wouldve bored, but did what we had to do at the time. Taking anything apart can snowball into a overhaul, but there is only one way to find out and if it happens to be a matching numbers block, it's worth knowing vs taking a chance.
Is the voodoo cam more geared towards mopar engines vs the comp cam i was looking at? Thanks in advance. I appreciate the feedback.
 
No way I’d assume a 50 year old muscle car engine without a known history would be ready for some street thrashing without taking it all apart and seeing what I had to work with.

After that....... then you can decide on where the $$$ needs to go.

How many times do you want to R&R the motor in that freshly painted engine bay?
Thanks for the feedback. We'd planned on taking it down to the bare block, having it honed if it's in tolerance, then using the stock rods, pistons etc. put replacing rings, bearings, timing chain, valves, push rods, flat tappet cam and lifters. Keeping stock heads for now but having them checked out for issues. Looking to step up the cam from stock while it's going to be out of the car but still want to retain vacuum for power brakes.
 
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