440 cast crank re-balance

[peabodyracin]

Looking at a 440 later today that's roughly an unassembled short block. Seller says the rotating assembly has been balanced for a neutral torque converter. LY rods and aftermarket pistons. Rods have been resized with new bolts. Photos show some material added to at least one counterweight. I've not seen the balancer nor have I heard of this before. Can a cast crank assembly be redone to allow use of a 'normal' converter?

 

[toolmanmike]

I think 73-78 440's were externally balanced. If this seller internally balanced the rotating assembly, that's a good thing. You can use a standard converter.

 

[dvw]

If the stock bob weight was significantly reduced to it could be internally balanced. But like down to 2200 grams maybe? Using mallory on a cast crank wouldn't make sense. The cost vs a forged crank wouldn't be worth it.
Doug

 

[dodgeboy440]

Looking at a 440 later today that's roughly an unassembled short block. Seller says the rotating assembly has been balanced for a neutral torque converter. LY rods and aftermarket pistons. Rods have been resized with new bolts. Photos show some material added to at least one counterweight. I've not seen the balancer nor have I heard of this before. Can a cast crank assembly be redone to allow use of a 'normal' converter?

In response….

“ can a cast crank assembly be redone to allow use of a normal converter?”…..

Kudos 2 U For your analysis & critical
Thinking skills …… it’s a vital component of
Hot Rodding….. like putting a gen3 Hemi
Hellcat drivetrain in a Prius !! That’s Great !
Then Race It On Woodward … Roadkill Style !
MUCHO & GUSTO

YES you should internally balance any engine
IMO , it will run better , last longer & be more fuel efficient! WHY ??…. Because its
In balanced form is the metallic version of
The 5th Symphony! Precise , planned &
Harmonious …..
Mass Production Equates to Numbers & not necessarily finely tuned harmonics & performance. Wouldn’t you agree ?

So if you’re engine is neutral balanced internally you wouldn’t need any external
Forces like an offset balancer to make it docile at RPM would U ?

So IF I was to build what you’ve evaluated
I believe you’re in a good starting point for a nice powerful & smooth running powerplant !

LY rods are forged Aren’t they ??
You’re Cranks Balanced. good!
Put a FluidDampner on it with the Neutral
TC of choice for your stall & IMO youll
Have a well running high performance Mopar

PS
How about a FiTech FI Setup for the fuel delivery needs …. More smoothness for
Happy cruise nites & bountiful burnouts !

Mopar2ya!!

John

 

[ckessel]

The 440 I recently put together, it's a 74, is cast crank. I'm using a 440 Source balancer up front which has a bolt on, to the backside, weight so it can be used for steel or cast crank. Backend has a PRW ChroMo flex plate which looks like a shark took a bite out of it. That came from Mancini. This allows a normal, non weighted converter to be used. The engine was balanced too when Mike Silva did the machine work for me.

 

[Rich H.]

It should be possible to do that, but it would probably cost the same or more than changing to a forged crank.

 

[Runcharger]

Wouldn't make much sense. Maybe neutral with a scalloped flex plate and the appropriate balancer?

 

[peabodyracin]

Thanks for the good input guys. I’ll take a look at it this evening and let you know

 

[RemCharger]

Wouldn't make much sense. Maybe neutral with a scalloped flex plate and the appropriate balancer?

It's either neutral, or scalloped FP and weighted balancer. But not both.

 

[peabodyracin]

Looked at the stuff. Nice younger guy who seemed to know what he was doing. Work was done by a reputable shop some years back. It’s a 75 block .060 over, and cast crank, mains .010 under, Speed Pro pistons, LY rods, resized with new bolts, cast crank balancer and scalloped aftermarket flex plate, new frost plugs, cam bearings and distributor bushing. Work looked to be well done and parts had been carefully stored. There was some Mallory metal used on one counterweight. Came with new rings and bearings. Full groove main bearings. Bunch of gaskets including copper head gasket spacers, carb spacer, new oil pump, ARP head bolts. I brought it all home for $900. Thanks again for your input.

 

[Rebelrouser]

Looking at a 440 later today that's roughly an unassembled short block. Seller says the rotating assembly has been balanced for a neutral torque converter. LY rods and aftermarket pistons. Rods have been resized with new bolts. Photos show some material added to at least one counterweight. I've not seen the balancer nor have I heard of this before. Can a cast crank assembly be redone to allow use of a 'normal' converter?

I don't think the cast crank 440's used LY rods they used the heavier rods similar to a 440 6-pack. So yes, maybe with the lighter rods and a lighter aftermarket piston it is possible to neutral balance it. Whatever machine shop did the work should have given the owner a sheet recording the bob weights etc. I would ask for that if possible.

 

[Thunderdan]

I don't think the cast crank 440's used LY rods they used the heavier rods similar to a 440 6-pack. So yes, maybe with the lighter rods and a lighter aftermarket piston it is possible to neutral balance it. Whatever machine shop did the work should have given the owner a sheet recording the bob weights etc. I would ask for that if possible.

Cast cranks had almost exclusively LY rods; the 6 pack rods were installed on some '70+ steel crank HP engines - especially in motorhomes in the era. Cast cranks were lighter than forged so they required external balancing for the RB's heavy dynamic rotating assembly and since the performance was dwindling from the early 70's on, the cast cranks were all that were truly needed on sub 300-horse factory engines.

 

[Diodedog]

Cast cranks had almost exclusively LY rods; the 6 pack rods were installed on some '70+ steel crank HP engines - especially in motorhomes in the era. Cast cranks were lighter than forged so they required external balancing for the RB's heavy dynamic rotating assembly and since the performance was dwindling from the early 70's on, the cast cranks were all that were truly needed on sub 300-horse factory engines.

Back when I had my first machine shop in the 90s, just for fun I weighed 4 cranks on my doctors scale that I used for shipping. A 383 steel, a 400 cast, a 440 cast and a 413 steel, all were within 1 lb of each other.

 

[Gunner1]

The 440 I recently put together, it's a 74, is cast crank. I'm using a 440 Source balancer up front which has a bolt on, to the backside, weight so it can be used for steel or cast crank. Backend has a PRW ChroMo flex plate which looks like a shark took a bite out of it. That came from Mancini. This allows a normal, non weighted converter to be used. The engine was balanced too when Mike Silva did the machine work for me.

Exactly the same setup I’ve got.