440 crank mystery/problems....HELP please!

[Mocajava]

Recently purchase a steel 440 crank from a local machine shop that was going out of business. The crank had already been turned and polished .0010 under and was ready to go. I took this with my 440 block to get the boring and honing done to start the fit of pistons and assembly. This is where the problems started. In looking at the crank it has 8 holes which is normally an application for the higher hp engines. These holes are NOT threaded, yet the back of the flange looks to have had a round head seated at some time. The crank has been used and there is also NO hub on the flange to center the flex plate on, just a tapered bore as in the pictures. The owner of the machine shop did some asking and was told this could be a marine application and might even be a reverse rotation application. We are asking for some help as to if I can even use this crank for my 440 build. I am hoping that i can tap into the wealth of knowledge from the FBBO members to shed some light on this problem I have. I am posting the pictures of the crank hoping the details will shed some light.Thanks in advance. Mocajava

 

[Seventy]

I remember hearing something about the bbm marine motors being thicker castings, not sure if that will make a difference in the crank. Also if it is a reverse rotation crank, then it will be knifed backwards, at least the rev roto chevys were that way...

I would just the right crank, its seems like its going to be more of a nightmare to get that thing to work than it is worth. You can pick up steel rb cranks for a couple hundred bucks, it would suck to pay all that money for your motor to get built and then have it not last or leak because the rear main is wrong or something...

 

[dryheat]

Compare the knurled area where the rear main seal rides on both cranks. If it is in the opposite direction then it's a marine crank.

 

[dieseldazzle]

There are no threads in the flange so i am not sure how one would fasten a flywheel or flexplate to it......I am sure that is not an automotive application. I would say some sort of industrial application but Im guessing. Hopefully someone has a definitive for you.

 

[Mocajava]

Thanks to all for the comments. I am leaning towards bagging this crank and getting an entire rotating assembly! I agree with Seventy and realize it will be more trouble than it is worth to "adapt" this to make it work. Will welcome any further comments to what this actually is but will start the search for an alternative, lick my wounds and move on. Thanks again FBBO professors, part of my on-going education at Mopar U..

 

[Cranky]

Looks like it has an extended flange too. Measure it from the edge of the bearing surface to the back of the crank. If it's longer, it's for sure an older industrial engine crank....

 

[Daves69]

If it has a knurl, looking from the rear of the crank, I believe a standard rotation should slant right, ie, /////////. The direction helps move oil forward.

I'm guessing the flange may have been modified for some sort of a collar type coupling for industrial purpose.

Isn't there supposed to be a slinger ring just in front of the seal area?

 

[khryslerkid]

Here's some pics of a 413 steel crank. Enjoy!

 

[69Bee]

This would be an late 50's to early 60's crank. The rear seal area looks smooth because it used a rope seal. As far as the flange missing a locating hub, there won't be one. The early hemis and industrial engines used a flywheel with the studs pressed into the flywheel, and centered the flywheel with the shouldered portion of the bolt. The flywheel was fastened to the crank with nuts and lockwashers on the engine side. The extended flange allowed the use of the reverse attachment of the flywheel, and required the use of an approximate 1" spacer between the bellhousing, and engine. I would get a regular 440 crank as it will be a lot easier to use than this crank. Hope this helps.

 

[Seventy]

I see you are in alaska but I would look locally for a decent crank that will match your rods, buying a rotating assembly will be over $2K for eagle, buying a new crank will be $700 plus 300 in balancing, you can grab a stock steel or cast crank for 100-300 and not have to balance it...
this guy would probably take $2500 just needs push rods, heads, head bolts, head, intake, and valve cover gaskets, distributor drive, distributor, distributor clamp, intake, valve covers, and a carb... It even has an oil filter and break in oil in it...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-CHRYSLER-440-SHORT-BLOCK-PLUS-/141721142029?hash=item20ff3d030d&vxp=mtr

 

[Mocajava]

I knew someone would know and 69Bee proved it! I am amazed at the wealth of knowledge that all of oyu have and are so willing to share. Thank you sir, I will follow all of your advice and keep searching. As far as what I do with this crank assembly....boat anchor? Or if someone needed it they could have her, I am just a long way from "the outside" as we say up here. Thanks again

 

[Cranky]

This would be an late 50's to early 60's crank. The rear seal area looks smooth because it used a rope seal. As far as the flange missing a locating hub, there won't be one. The early hemis and industrial engines used a flywheel with the studs pressed into the flywheel, and centered the flywheel with the shouldered portion of the bolt. The flywheel was fastened to the crank with nuts and lockwashers on the engine side. The extended flange allowed the use of the reverse attachment of the flywheel, and required the use of an approximate 1" spacer between the bellhousing, and engine. I would get a regular 440 crank as it will be a lot easier to use than this crank. Hope this helps.

I've pulled down many later model factory engines that had the knurling with the packing type seal......

 

[Daves69]

Then too, are you sure it's a 440 crank?

http://www.wilcap.com/392ID.JPG

 

[69Bee]

I've pulled down many later model factory engines that had the knurling with the packing type seal......

True, but usually by now, especially if it has been polished quite a few times, could be gone or almost gone. If the crank was ground back that far, it would go away too. I was hard to see the seal area, but it looks smooth.

 

[Mocajava]

The Hemi crank picture is exactly what it looks like with that taperd bor ID on the flange facing. I can try and take a better picture of the seal area if that would help and get mic dimensions off the journals if need be.

 

[Mocajava]

The strange thing to me is that none of the numbers ( 1527 or DF10) match any listings I can find for big block cranks. At the end of my rope and decided to get a different crank, one that can be used to finish this build. Appreciate all the help gentlemen. Mocajava

 

[Mocajava]

Well the mystery may be solved. I am told the part is 185 1527 and used in early 413, 426 and 440 engines. If anyone needs this get in touch with me as the length of snout would require using a spacer for bell housing and other mods to my 440 block set up now. Thanks for all the help gentlemen. Mocajava

 

[Mocajava]

Well this crank still sits in my garage as a door stop. Pretty and polished and it needs to find a new home. I am in Alaska and would welcome any opportunity to see it gone. Hate to just turn it over to a scrap dealer but will not let it sit in my way forever. Any thoughts or ideas from the FBBO clan?