440 Engine Build - Trouble shoot start up

[Brian Kennell]

Looking for a little help here:

I built a 440 RB and had a good time time doing it, however I'm struggling with starting it up. I built this engine, dropped it in, and it started up fairly easily on initial startup. That being said, the rear main did not seal up and slung quite a bit of oil. I ripped the engine back out, replaced the rear main and dropped back in. Since then, I have struggled to get it started. I have trouble shot multiple angles and am somewhat stuck.
Ignition - Verified spark at distributor and at all plugs, replaced both coil and distributor
Fuel - Fuel is good, also delivered starting fluid directly into carburetor
Compression - Good

The engine will turn over mechanically, but there is not even a cough. I have verified TDC and manipulated the distributor accordingly to no avail.

Any help/suggestions appreciated.....

 

[davek]

could you be 180 off?

 

[Sam69sat]

could you be 180 off?

Yep, my first thought too. Make sure you have tdc set on the compression stroke.

 

[Brian Kennell]

could you be 180 off?

yes, I suspected this as well and chased the rabbit. I set TDC, went another revolution on the crank and re-fired. Result was a little back spout of fuel from the carburetor. Still no cough or fire, but this let me to suspect the original TDC was on target.

 

[Photon440]

That was my first thought as well...the distributor is sending the spark to #1 on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke. It's happened to me before.
By the way, welcome! Head over to the welcome thread and let people know you're here.

 

[Brian Kennell]

That was my first thought as well...the distributor is sending the spark to #1 on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke. It's happened to me before.
By the way, welcome! Head over to the welcome thread and let people know you're here.

Seems to be the consensus. I haven't played around with the new MSD distributor that I dropped in, so I'll do some more troubleshooting there, verify TDC again and play with the timing some more. With fuel and compression verified, there shouldn't be too much left to check, not too many bells and whistles on this thing, pretty basic setup....

 

[davek]

do you have the old distributor ? I would use that and see what happens. what did you use when you first got it started?

 

[Brian Kennell]

do you have the old distributor ? I would use that and see what happens. what did you use when you first got it started?

The original distributor was a mech advance that I bought from 440 source. It came with little to no literature so not much to go on there. I read about some challenges on the forum regarding the advance curves hence my rationale to go ahead and opt for the much pricier MSD equivalent.... old distributor is a no go, I will play some more with the newer MSD version.

 

[BLK 68 R/T]

Are you getting spark to the plugs? Is the firing order correct? You had it running before so something you changed is the culprit.

 

[silversedan]

did you forget a ground wire when you put the motor back in. where is the msd box grounded?

 

[turbine68rt]

Does your carb need to be choked? I found out the hard way mine will not start at all unless it's fully choked. Also, as previously mentioned, have you verified the correct firing order on the cap going counter-clockwise?

 

[dvw]

When the engine was removed and replaced what exactly was removed/loosened to replace the main seal? Distributor, carb, crank, timing chain, rockers? Or just the pan and seal retainer? What I'm getting at is the cam timing still correct? Is the Valve lash correct? If those are both verified and it has fuel that leaves only one option. Quality spark isn't at the plug at the correct time. Also assuming the intake or exhaust isn't plugged up which I don't think is an issue in this case. Make sure the ignition box has a 12 volt feed in run position with the key as well as in the crank position. If the chain was removed; Remove the valve covers. Align the timing marks to where you set the cam IE; 4 degrees advanced set to 4 BTDC. If the cam is correct the distributor is aligned correctly, the #1 cylinder will have both valves closed. The #6 cylinder will have both valves open the exact same distance. Can be verified with a straight edge across the valves.
Doug

 

[1967coronet]

The original distributor was a mech advance that I bought from 440 source. It came with little to no literature so not much to go on there. I read about some challenges on the forum regarding the advance curves hence my rationale to go ahead and opt for the much pricier MSD equivalent.... old distributor is a no go, I will play some more with the newer MSD version.

View attachment 1082869

What I'm reading is the 1st start up and run was with the 440 source distributor.
After pulling the engine to redo the rear main you have also decided to replace that 440 source distributor with a MSD set up and the engine has not started since the switch .
Mabey I have missed something but that's how it reads to me.
Try swapping back to the 440 source distributor. I understand you do not care for their advance set up , but at least it would run.
I'm sure MSD builds a great product but they do seem to generate many threads on here ?
Heck , mabey try a mopar distributor and box ?
Good luck , hope she fires up for you.

 

[Brian Kennell]

Are you getting spark to the plugs? Is the firing order correct? You had it running before so something you changed is the culprit.

Yes, i have spark to each cylinder, i have removed the plugs and turned over while plug arcs to ground. The firing order is based on the Chrysler BB. your statement rings true about it running before, i just can't seem to find the gremlin.

 

[WileE]

Go back to square one. Back to basics. Meaning, making sure your cam/crank are in synch (as stated, #1 on compression stroke to fire #1 in distributor). Proceed from there. I followed the MEF method : mechanical, electrical,fuel. Systems in that order.

 

[Brian Kennell]

When the engine was removed and replaced what exactly was removed/loosened to replace the main seal? Distributor, carb, crank, timing chain, rockers? Or just the pan and seal retainer? What I'm getting at is the cam timing still correct? Is the Valve lash correct? If those are both verified and it has fuel that leaves only one option. Quality spark isn't at the plug at the correct time. Also assuming the intake or exhaust isn't plugged up which I don't think is an issue in this case. Make sure the ignition box has a 12 volt feed in run position with the key as well as in the crank position. If the chain was removed; Remove the valve covers. Align the timing marks to where you set the cam IE; 4 degrees advanced set to 4 BTDC. If the cam is correct the distributor is aligned correctly, the #1 cylinder will have both valves closed. The #6 cylinder will have both valves open the exact same distance. Can be verified with a straight edge across the valves.
Doug

All this is good feedback, i'll run through this today. To answer your question, i basically did a tear down, i removed the crank and replaced the entire rear main. heads were removed, rockers, etc. put it back together the same way(or so i thought)

 

[Brian Kennell]

Go back to square one. Back to basics. Meaning, making sure your cam/crank are in synch (as stated, #1 on compression stroke to fire #1 in distributor). Proceed from there. I followed the MEF method : mechanical, electrical,fuel. Systems in that order.

10-4

 

[dvw]

If it starts with one distributor and not the other I bet the 2 pick-up wires are reversed. Try swapping them.
Doug

 

[eldubb440]

i always set up 10 - 15* before TDC, so there is no chance of being after TDC... works every time

 

[diesel_lv]

It's been mentioned before, but I'll reiterate it. I tried for a week to get my fresh build to start. Yes, I knew that the distributor on BB rotates counter clockwise. Yes, I had checked my laminated wiring diagram at least 20 times. Valve cover off n checked TDC. I had been a helicopter turbine engine mechanic for 23 yrs, built many other engines, what was I doing wrong. Well, I had been "looking" at the diagram and not thinking. The diagram showed distributor cap wiring for small block, which is clockwise. Not thinking, I wired them in reverse. Once I realized what I did, a week later, I fixed it n it fired right up.