484 purple cam vs. 509

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  1. 65belvedereII

    65belvedereII Member

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    Hey everybody, my father and i have a 65 belvedere with a .30 over 440 that currently has a best time of 12.70 at 105.6 at 3725 lbs. We were thinking of going one size bigger while keeping the hydraulic style cam. What would be the pros and cons of doing this? do you think that we would pick up any time? the car has a 2800 stall converter, ported and polished heads, cast crank, 850 holley DP. it also has 4.10s and dual plane mopar intake. Any input would be helpful. Thanks Mike.
     
  2. Tex013

    Tex013 Well-Known Member

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    can't give you advise on the 484 but i can with the 509
    it will want the 4.10's,a big convertor and compression.
    when i built my engine i had home pocket ported 906 heads,10.4 comp,4200 flash vert ,3.9 gears,M1 single plane and 825 mighty demon.Ran mid to high 11.80's.
    went to pocket ported stealth heads,cometic 0.027 gasket(10.78 comp)went into the low 11.50's.tried a borrowed 4.11 centre,8 3/4,went mid 11.30's.back to 3.9's
    the vert was pulling the motor down on launch,SSR picked that on the incar video thanks again
    replaced the vert with a Dynamic 9 1/2,flash to 5100,11.30 with the 3.9 gear
    Fitted 4.10's have now run 11.12
    idles good at around 750 in gear.
    only draw back with the 108LSA is low engine vacuum,i run a vacuum pump for the power brakes.
    with hooker 1 7/8 headers,3" exhaust to diff with aero chambers the car sounds great but you can hear it coming
    there may be more modern grinds out there but these will work,though i will be moving to a solid as i am now trapping at 63/6400 and i feel i am just coming off the cam
    by the way i drive the Satellite everyday
    Tex
     
  3. lewtot184

    lewtot184 Well-Known Member

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    it may depend on what your comparing the 284/ 509 cams to. whats in the engine now? if your using a factory mopar intake, cast iron or aluminum dual plane, thats a real power killer. i took the six-pak off my 69 r/t and put the stock intake and carb back on a month or so ago. the power loss was tremendous on a stock engine. if it were me i'd change the intake first and then look at a solid lifter cam.
     
  4. 65belvedereII

    65belvedereII Member

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    sorry guys the car actually has a single plane intake the m1 and the 484 cam in it now, it has decent compression but i dont know the exact number to be honest, has the 4.10s, 2800 turbo action converter, heads are ported and polished as well, car pulls like a bear up top but is somewhat of pig in the 60 foot. Traps at like 5900 rpm. The question i have is will the 509 turn my mild compression engine into a slug or do you think it could help in terms of low end power more so than the 484? It just seems like something is missing in the setup because being a 440 it should be a torque monster but it doesnt pull good 60 foots. I dont want to go to the solid roller yet as im trying to get the most out of the current setup before we do another build. Thanks Mike.
     
  5. lewtot184

    lewtot184 Well-Known Member

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    if you need more low end the 509 is heading in the wrong direction. a modern dual plane like the edelbrock rpm will give more low and midrange power without too much top end sacrifice. i prefer soild cams because they are more flexiable than hydraulics.
     
  6. rlsbee

    rlsbee Well-Known Member

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    There are two 484 cams. One has ( I think) a 108 centerline and the other has a 114 centerline. The 108 cam has 68 degrees of overlap and the 114 cam has 53 degrees. I have a '68 Bee with a 383 that's a street car. I run the 108 cam and I found that it likes a lot of initial timing. My car was a pig on low end until I cranked in bunch of initial timing. the down side, of course was ending up with too much total. I solved that problem with a Pertronix distributor which has advance limiters. I've got total set at 36 (w/o vacuum connected) which works okay for the gas I can buy. I would never recommend this cam for a street car. I don't know anyone with the 114 center line cam but it's supposed to be a more 'streetable' version of the 484 cam. Just my experience, hope it helps.
     
  7. 383man

    383man Well-Known Member

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    I ran the old .484 in my old 383 Dart . It was the 108 cam and it ran very good in that Dart. It was a basically stock 383 with some mild porting done on the 452 heads and 9.5 comp. Had headers , RPM intake and a 750 DP. Used a 3000 TA converter and 3.91's with the .484 cam on a 104 installed centerline. That 72 Dart weighed 3575 with the driver and ran 12.31 @ 110. The old .484 will make power in the right combo. I do agree the .509 will not do much in your combo without other changes. If it were me I would go with the dual plane RPM intake and more converter first and see how the car likes it. The .509 will want more then the 2800 converter. Even with the .484 I would look into a nice 9.5 converter like Dynamic sells. I use their 9.5 in my 63 and it drives like a normal car but will flash about 4200 at the track. There is alot of good converter company's out there and I think your car would like more converter. Good luck , Ron
     
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    • lewtot184

      lewtot184 Well-Known Member

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      the 284-.484 cam isn't a bad choice for what your doing. you can get a little adventurous and try something that will give low, mid, and top end power.
       

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    • Meep-Meep

      Meep-Meep дворянин

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      I'd say stay away from the .509" unless you get more compression. I'll agree with Tex that it's a nice cam but the combo has to be right (and sounds like he's dialed!). I'm running a 3700 lb car with a mild 440 and my times are the same as yours. 12.80 @ 105. Engine is 10.1:1 with a .455" MoPar cam and a factory iron intake with a 750 AFB.
       
    • ykf7b0

      ykf7b0 Well-Known Member

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      I had this same decision to make. I have a .030 overbore 440, 10.15 to 1 compression, Edlebrock Performer RPM intake, Hedman headers and 3 inch exhaust with Dynomax Super Turbo's, Holley 850 double pump, 727 transmission with a PTC 9 1/2 inch converter that flashes at 3500 rpm. I was torn between the 509 and 484 Purpleshafts. I contacted Hensley Racing Enterprises in Knoxville, TN (a very reputable Mopar engine builder in the South) and Ken Hensley said I would be much happier with the 484 especially since this is primarily a street car. He also said the performance was relatively the same. I went a step farther and advanced the cam 2 degree's upon istall and came up with a 105.5 centerline using a degree wheel. It idles great at stop lights, sounds awsome, and has tons of low end torque. He was right! I love the 484. This full bodied roadrunner has ran a best of 7.52 1/8 mile (11.82 1/4 mile) e.t. and 6.90,s (10.95 1/4 mile) on nitrous. Ken Hensley also told me that when I'm undecided between to camshaft's to always choose the smaller one. I hope this helps!
       
      Last edited: Nov 24, 2011
    • Cranky

      Cranky Moderator Staff Member FBBO Gold Member

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      In my experiences, the 484 over the 509 in a build like that did the best and I advance them some too over what they already have ground into them.
       
    • Red63440

      Red63440 Well-Known Member

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      The replacement cam for the old Hemi grind 108 degree cam is P4452993 and it has 110 degees of overlap. The original one was P3690214, 284 advertised duration .471 intake, .474 exhaust on 108.

      In 1983 it was replaced by P4286631, 280 duration .474 lift, straight pattern on 110. The idea was to improve both idle quality and power.

      In 1989, P4286631 was replaced by P4452993 which has identical specs, and the 993 is still a good part number today.

      It's still a good street cam for a near stock 440, the best thing about it is not finicky about gear and converter. Also works well with low compression.

      Basic Operating RPM Range 2,000-6,000
      Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift 238
      Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift 238
      Duration at 050 inch Lift 238 int./238 exh.
      Advertised Intake Duration 280
      Advertised Exhaust Duration 280
      Advertised Duration 280 int./280 exh.
      Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.474 in.
      Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.474 in.
      Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.474 int./0.474 exh.
      Lobe Separation (degrees) 110
       
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