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512 Stroker Ring Choice

Garys1969RR

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Ready to order pistons and rings for this 400 based stroker motor. 4.25 stroke, 4.402 bore (.060 over). Will be using the ICON flat top pistons, IC823-060. There is a Total seal moly ring set, file to fit, that I like. CRG 3690-45, with 11 LB oil ring tension. Also available is CRL 3690-45 with a 16 lb tension. Not sure what to use, but leaning towards the 11 lb ring set. Any ideas? What have you other 512 builders been using? This is a Drag race only motor. Thanks
 
I’m not a fan of low tension rings without using a vacuum pump. Call the ring manufacturer, they can point you in the right direction.
 
Call Kevin Studaker at Toal Seal. He will give you solid advise.
Doug
 
I’m not a fan of low tension rings without using a vacuum pump. Call the ring manufacturer, they can point you in the right direction.
Same here. With that 1/16,1/16,3/16 groove setup, you’re limited and I’ll take a little extra drag on the oil ring over oil control issues every time.
 
Same here. With that 1/16,1/16,3/16 groove setup, you’re limited and I’ll take a little extra drag on the oil ring over oil control issues every time.
In a race only motor, would the main problem be getting oil into the combustion chambers, that can lead to detonation? Or are we more concerned with plug fouling problems?
 
In a race only motor, would the main problem be getting oil into the combustion chambers, that can lead to detonation? Or are we more concerned with plug fouling problems?
Detonation and charge contamination. If you want to run a low friction ring package, you wouldn’t use a shelf piston with that ring setup anyway. You’d have an .043/.043 napier/3mm setup with a vac pump on it.
 
Detonation and charge contamination. If you want to run a low friction ring package, you wouldn’t use a shelf piston with that ring setup anyway. You’d have an .043/.043 napier/3mm setup with a vac pump on it.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
OK, next consideration is Moly or Chrome faced top ring. The guy at Total Seal said if you get into any detonation, it will blow the Moly off the face of the top ring. So he recommended Chrome for the top one, since it is a 13 to 1 motor. Them I Told him at 5400 feet in Denver, it's more like 12 to 1 sea level. So he said Moly may work OK. What do you guys use in your stroker motors?
 
Total Seal does NOT make Oil Rings...... Total Seal "Oil Rings" are just RE-BOXED HASTINGS Oil Rings
just say'in....
that if you experience a less than satisfaction answer through Total Seal ? ask them for yourself whose Oil Rings are in their Boxes ? then call HASTINGS Engineering and get it from the Horses mouth.
 
OK, next consideration is Moly or Chrome faced top ring. The guy at Total Seal said if you get into any detonation, it will blow the Moly off the face of the top ring. So he recommended Chrome for the top one, since it is a 13 to 1 motor. Them I Told him at 5400 feet in Denver, it's more like 12 to 1 sea level. So he said Moly may work OK. What do you guys use in your stroker motors?

Moly faced top / Ductile Iron 2nd / 20 or so tension no lower
You gotta rattle the thing pretty darn hard at a mile high(5,400 ft) to knock the Moly outa the top ring.... more of a Blown deal problem than anything.
You DO have a Timing Light right ? and decent Fuel ?
and remember here also.....
your Dynamic CR at THAT Altitude with whatever Cam you are running will dump even 13;1 static(again depending on Cam), probably wheezing sub 160 psi ?
 
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Yea, race fuel, long duration Comp roller cam. 283/288 duration at .050. RX 316R-8 .660 lift. 38 degrees timing. We have a good timing light. And good guess, Compression was right at 160, but that was with alot of leakage past the rings. That's why we're going with a new 512 build.
 
Moly all the way. There is chrome moly rings also. Chrome rings used to be recommended for a dusty environment. I have never used chrome rings after I see too many blocks worn out prematurely. Kim
 
Yea, race fuel, long duration Comp roller cam. 283/288 duration at .050. RX 316R-8 .660 lift. 38 degrees timing. We have a good timing light. And good guess, Compression was right at 160, but that was with alot of leakage past the rings. That's why we're going with a new 512 build.

Very Good Camshaft, we've use it lots over the years.

What Heads for the planned 38* Timing ?
and
Dome or Flat Tops ?
 
20180907_160130.jpg
Flat top ICON pistons, zero deck, .035 quench, Stage VI heads, some porting.
 
Ready to order pistons and rings for this 400 based stroker motor. 4.25 stroke, 4.402 bore (.060 over). Will be using the ICON flat top pistons, IC823-060. There is a Total seal moly ring set, file to fit, that I like. CRG 3690-45, with 11 LB oil ring tension. Also available is CRL 3690-45 with a 16 lb tension. Not sure what to use, but leaning towards the 11 lb ring set. Any ideas? What have you other 512 builders been using? This is a Drag race only motor. Thanks

Don't order those rings unless your building a 360. Those are 4.040" bore, not 4.400" bore.

I think you need CR2690-40 (4.400")
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tsr-cr269040

Looks like a CR9190-150 might work too?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tsr-cr9190150-1
 
Yes I realized i had the 0 and 4 in the wrong spot. Haha. I was thinking about using the 9190
How is the 2690 set different? Other than being $16 higher? Looking it up on the summit site, and can't see what the difference is.
 
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I think your right about the 9190-150 that is what Total Seals web page says when looking by bore size.
When I looked at the 2690, they don't show 40 over? just 35 over and 45 over?
The 2690 shows as a Ford 428 and 460 CID, 4.360" std bore size ring. Then a 40 oversize is 4.400"?
The 9190 shows as a standard bore size of 4.250" for a bunch of applications, Mopar 383 and 426 Hemi, GM 427 and 454. Add the 150 overbore to get the 4.400".
Really don't know if there is any difference in the ring packs as I could not find a listing of the ring numbers for Top, Second, Oil in the packs?
That would be a good question to ask Total Seals tech department?
Almost 5:00, time to go back to work....
 
View attachment 736940 Flat top ICON pistons, zero deck, .035 quench, Stage VI heads, some porting.

I would be surprised if the Engine wants/needs any more than 34*/35* total timing, even at your elevation with the Flat Top given correct/safe Jetting.

One thing I am absolutely positive around, is 38* is ASKING for TROUBLE !

If you are all concerned about detonation as your Ring Pack inquiries would suggest ? why in the world would you even think about 38* using a Flat Top Piston choice?
I guess I'm just curious after Dyno'ing HUNDREDS of BB Mopar race engine combinations 500-1,000 hp, just where 38* would come from for a Bracket Engine combination ?
We also see PLENTY of Flat Top combinations as high as 850hp that want NO MORE than 32*.... with power DROPPING past 33 *
WHERE does 38* come from ?
 
Mopar started recommending it in the late sixties on hopped up factory engines and the Mopar crowd took it as gospel. 38 was never intended to be carried over into every last build, but it’s still stuck in the oldschool crowds head. Kim
 
Mopar started recommending it in the late sixties on hopped up factory engines and the Mopar crowd took it as gospel. 38 was never intended to be carried over into every last build, but it’s still stuck in the oldschool crowds head. Kim
Well I may be able to get that 38* timing figure out of my mind. But it will take some effort! LOL. I'll start back down around 32-35 total, and go from there.
 
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